What is the General Consensus?

[HyperiusUltima]

This is in regards to where each tank places, and I would also like to know what each role excels at. I haven’t always poked the Tank Sub-forums, but with all the anti-climactic ‘doom and gloom’ over Dark Knight, I just want to know what each Tank brings to the table based on data and abilities available.

[Canadane]

I think the general consensus is that they're all capable of doing all content in the game.

[HyperiusUltima]

I think the general consensus is that they're all capable of doing all content in the game.

Then why do people fight over it exactly?

[Dieworc]

Then why do people fight over it exactly?

Because people are obsessed with the high level "meta", Something that is relevant to maybe .1% of the player base.

[shao32]

Then why do people fight over it exactly?

most doom and gloom come from other players trying to say our kit is good without even know how the DRK math works, you can add the ones how complaing they main jobs are not even good as the data show -aka PLD and WAR- with its really anoying after spend several months reporting about how "bad" is our state compared to the other tanks.

in the end its just a "no my job is more weaker" fight but the consensus in general is WAR is a bit to strong due the last rework and DRK need several changes that by SE logics on balance has to be done since day 1.

meta its just a excuse some take it out they hats, its just comon sense you cant have 3 tanks and keep buffing the one how dont need it and keep ignoring the lower one.

[Luin]

Then why do people fight over it exactly?

Drk's only tank w/o raid mitigation. Only tank still eat resource from swapping stance (MP). Literally 2 unique cooldowns & one of them is magic-exclusive & the other is counterintuitive to Blood Gauge.

Can Drk clear? Yes. Holding aggro, cycling cd, that front all the tanks are basically copy+pasted. You could remove all 'unique' utilities & would still be able to have a tank clear most content. The problem is Drk as a job isnt rewarding to play. Anything Drk can do, War and Pld can do better & more.

Point is Drk doesn't reward the player. War has burst damage & strong self-cd, Pld has best raid mitigation, Drk has neither or the damage to make up for it. Drk *is* that copy+paste. And you don't want to play a copy+paste, because it's boring.

Most importantly, War is too strong. You can't do Pld/Drk, you lose too much dps during burst windows and on the pull.

Oh, honey.

TBN breaks even in its cost. To understand that statement, it means that whether that resource was used for your "offensive abilities" or on TBN makes no difference, the DPS will be the roughly the same. This means that DRK only stands to gain by using TBN so long as the shield breaks, which is no challenge on a 7 second duration. The DRK gains mitigation and keeps their damage. The same could not be said for WAR's Inner Beast. As far as damage goes, the point of showing top performance is what a job is capable of. Is it behind? A bit, but only a bit. Again, when you look at the facts objectively, the doom and gloom surrounding the opinion on DRK leads to people disregarding said opinions.

Your hyperbole has no meat, and I'm quite hungry.

This depends on Delirium. Because BS eats GCD you're pushing back SS and SE and losing blood and mp. Using TBN to proc BS is a DPS loss while not in Grit. TBN to proc Delirium is a gain.

As for using DA, BS should get priority because crits don't scale linearly so the extra potency goes further, but that's minor.

Also, Inner Beast isn't remotely similar to Bloodspiller. IB is used as a defensive cooldown, not necessarily for damage.

[Hierro]

Only tank still eat resource from swapping stance (MP).

This depends on Delirium. Because BS eats GCD you're pushing back SS and SE and losing blood and mp. Using TBN to proc BS is a DPS loss while not in Grit. TBN to proc Delirium is a gain.

Also, Inner Beast isn't remotely similar to Bloodspiller. IB is used as a defensive cooldown, not necessarily for damage.

PLD's oath changes cost MP, and realistically, another GCD more than DRK.

Anyways, It's been shown that using TBN to proc BS is DPS neutral. Honestly, it doesn't matter which GCD bloodspiller replaces in a combo. The end result is that it's the same if you decided to use the MP on TBN for BS, or on DA for SE, SS, or what have you.

Inner Beast is not similar to Bloodspiller. I'm comparing IB to TBN when it comes to native, "on-demand" mitigation. The argument being made is that DRK's mitigation is weak, when in reality none of DRK's cooldowns should be viewed in a vacuum, but instead as "x cooldown+TBN," because when you establish that TBN breaks even on its cost, there is no reason to NOT pair it with your defensives. DRK does not need several abilities because TBN can be abused and reused so often for its 15 second cooldown! It's even better than Sheltron for taking fluff damage. This is absurdly strong, especially when you consider DRK has access to that much mitigation outside of grit. WAR has to at least swap stances and lose DPS to gain access to IB.

[Anienai]

Then why do people fight over it exactly?

Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization. -Agent Smith

[Aniya_Estlihn]

All three are capable of doing content effectively, even if one is grossly disadvantaged by simply having it's fault ignored repeatedly, they all three can perform their base function, that being to tank. Warrior and Paladin simply excel at it compared to Dark Knight. Warrior is seemingly based around the idea of doing more with less, Paladin has a cooldown and utility for almost every situation, and Dark Knight is the opposite of both and requires vastly more effort to achieve the the same results with no consideration or extra reward for the effort put in to doing so.

but with all the anti-climactic ‘doom and gloom’ over Dark Knight.

Honestly, for Dark Knight, it's not doom and gloom when it's the absolute truth.
Poor mitigation, lacking in offensive ability and an over reliance on multiple, separate resources.

[Hierro]

Honestly, for Dark Knight, it's not doom and gloom when it's the absolute truth.
Poor mitigation, lacking in offensive ability and an over reliance on multiple, separate resources.

People are far less likely to take your opinion seriously when you use hyperbole. DRK mitigation is anything but poor. TBN supplements all defensive CDs, for a cost that breaks EVEN in dps. Offensive capability isn't that lacking either when you look at top performing DRKs vs top performing WARs. Also, the last statement is something that's wayy too overloaded with meaningless words.