What is the General Consensus?

[TouchandFeel]

I'd also posit that a major factor in there being as many DRK related threads as there are is the effect of issues and concerns being largely ignored by the developers over a long period of time.

When a perceived issue is found and voiced, often we see a large uptick in the number of threads regarding that issue and the job that it is associated with. This tends to grow in size and "volume" (audibility not spatial) which then dissipates once it gets addressed.

Great juxtaposing examples of this are the PLD threads during HW where the concerns of PLDs were largely ignored for a long time and so a large portion of the Tank forums were made up of PLD threads, as well as the WAR threads regarding SiO in early SB where there were a lot of WAR threads about this but the clamor quickly died off because SE decided to address the issue incredibly quickly.

Basically what we are seeing is around 9 months (arguably much longer for certain DRK issues that persisted from HW) of build up from DRK not being acknowledged by the devs, plus the extra salt in the wound of having more attention being given to a job that was performing better in practically all aspects, WAR.

Sure it may seem like "too much", but apparently "too much" was just enough and what was needed to get SE to begrudgingly acknowledge that DRK may have issues and that they should perhaps take a look at it, just like PLDs had to go all out and really push for much needed changes through out almost all of HW.

If DRK issues were resolved, or at the very least acknowledged, as quickly as the SiO change, there would likely be less "complaint threads" floating around.

When your concerns are often expediently dealt with, it is easy to look at those who have been ignored continuing to raise their concerns and see them as whiny. Easy, but not necessarily right.

I truly don't understand why, in a cooperative-play game in which a player can at will play any available job, that people wouldn't support improving jobs that are undeniably behind and making all jobs as equally playable and enjoyable as possible instead of this constant "us vs. them" embattled state we currently have.

[whiskeybravo]

I guess I'm the only one that gets Aana post lol. Go ahead label me another War fanboy

For reals tho, seems like an honest attempt to prevent the OP from getting the wrong idea just by glancing at the tank forums. There have been DRK threads for months, it's not untrue. I think it's entirely possible for an untrained forum-goer to get a bad impression of DRK, but in general - consistent with Aana's other posts - it basically only matters for the top % of players. I still see plenty of DRKs running other content (they might be in savage too, I don't know since I never really pug)

There is a significant gap in # of DRK players compared to WAR/PLD, no doubt about that. But they are still here. There are still DRKs clearing savage. While I'm not defending the exaggerated argument in general, it's not incapable of clearing content. It's not that far behind. It's just undesirable in serious groups. There's nothing that makes it valuable to them. I think it's fair to point out both sides.

[Chrono_Rising]

...

I think it's fair to point out both sides.

I agree it is, but calling people out for exaggeration while at the same time exaggerating your side does no one any good.

If we are going to have conversations and expect others to engage in the same conversation with an open mind and the ability to sway each others opinions, we ourselves need to put those actions to practice. We cannot ignore people's arguments and insist we are correct for the sake of being right. We cannot distort facts about the past to fit a narrative. We cannot argue that others engage in exaggeration, while we ourselves exaggerate in the next breath. And we cannot sugar coat what we have previously said in an effort to smooth out our own mistakes. That doesn't get us anywhere other than arguing for the sake of being right, when we should be arguing to find the truth.

[Aana]

I'd also posit that a major factor in there being as many DRK related threads as there are is the effect of issues and concerns being largely ignored by the developers over a long period of time.

I am not passing judgement that the number of drk threads is to damn high. Stating that there are lots of drk threads is not the same thing as saying there shouldn't BE drk threads. The knee jerk to defend and justify the volume of drk threads keeps blacking out my actual point. The number of threads/posts is simply a factoid that supports my point, not THE point.

Drk is the weakest tank, but if you were to read the forums to learn about the state of tanks, you could be mistake the volume of posts to be a measure of HOW weak drk is and have a distorted view. Volume of posts about a thing does not equate to the actual power of said thing. It is representative of how people FEEL about a thing (frustration, anger, etc at being ignored by devs in most cases).

I guess I'm the only one that gets Aana post lol. Go ahead label me another War fanboy

For reals tho, seems like an honest attempt to prevent the OP from getting the wrong idea just by glancing at the tank forums. There have been DRK threads for months, it's not untrue. I think it's entirely possible for an untrained forum-goer to get a bad impression of DRK

Holy crap there is hope. Somebody got the point instead of jumping all over the perceived attack.

[TouchandFeel]

Nobody is arguing or has argued to my recollection that DRK is incapable of clearing any and all content in the game, only that it is less capable than the other tank jobs. How much so is up for debate because many different people have many different perspectives on the relative value of the measured deficiencies.

The issue that myself and others took with the post in question is that it used hyperbole to form a portayal of others being hyperbolic, which itself presents a distorted image of the situation while claiming to do so in the name of trying to prevent viewers from getting a distorted image of the situation.

Presenting both sides, or multiple sides, to something is fine but it can be done in a more sensible and pragmatic way.

"DRK can currently clear all content in the game, but it does have issues.
Some people overstate and exaggerate the issues with DRK, some people downplay the issues, most people express something in between.
The main thing that can be determined by the number of DRK threads is that DRK still has issues. How bad those issues are is debatable and you would best be served by reading through threads and using your own best judgement to try to gleam the truth, as most responses to asking what people's opinions are on the matter will be continuations of the opinions presented already in the existing threads.
Also the best way to really know how the tanks stack up against each other is to level all of them and try them all out to get a first hand comparison. After all the best tank in the game is the omni-tank."

See, like that.

[Derio]

All 3 tanks can clear content. But you have to look at all sides of the argument. And there is a reason why DRK is the least played tank in high end content. The evidence is there.

[kashi11]

Or, you know, people could actually read some of the DRK posts instead of just saying 'wow there are a lot of posts about fixing DRK, it must be broken and unusable'. If you actually read the numerous threads you will see they they have a bunch of little issues that add up to them being last. Also being last in every measurable category is different then being the least played tank. If DRK were the best in just 1 category, DRK could still be the the least played tank. Right now there is literally no reason to roll a DRK over WAR or PLD other than the player wanting to play as a DRK. When running something like Shinryu EX I will always use my PLD over my DRK because PLD just excels in that fight where DRK can't.

[TouchandFeel]

Data:
Forum 'concensus':
War>>Pld>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Drk

This forum has been overflowing with Drk tears for months and that is not up for debate.

The point was that you should trust the reasonable judgement based on data, not the thousands of QQ posts littered throughout the fourms.

You say that you are not passing judgement on the number of DRK threads, but when you make statements like those above you are most definitely passing judgment both on the amount and content of the DRK posts. When you portray the forum feedback for DRK, which as I already went into is understandably and expectedly at a high volume, as "tears" and "QQing" and being "hyperbolic" you are intentionally describing them in a negative fashion which is an externalization of a negative judgement.

Let's take for example the following sentances:
"Aana is expressing their perspective of the DRK threads again."
"There Aana goes, bitching about the DRK threads again."

Technically it could be argued that they are making the same statement, however the very different language and the implications and connotations of the wording paint very different pictures, with the first being fairly neutral and the second being discernibly negative.

Using such wording to portray something in a negative light also has the effect, often intentionally, of detracting from the veracity and value of what is being spoken about. When concerns, complaints and feedback are labeled as just a bunch of "QQing" it devalues them and makes them easier to ignore or discredit under the pretense of them being emotional and biased overreactions that lack merit.
It also is an indirect insult to those that have engaged in the DRK feedback as it makes them out as essentially being babies, because what is the image that is immediately evoked of something that cries a lot? A baby.

Expressing that people should properly inform themselves and not just jump to conclusions, based on the amount of feedback and the manner in which it is sometimes given, that DRK is the worst thing since explosive diarrhea in a stuck elevator is great and people should always make properly informed decisions, however by using obviously loaded language that is not the message that you were putting out, whether intentional or not.

Anyways, I feel this back and forth has more than run its course and while I would hope that you see why the things you were saying resulted in backlash, I have my doubts as to whether any minds will be changed on the matter. I have said my piece and will leave it at that, simply hoping that people in general will be more mindful of not only what they say but how they say it as delivery can carry just as much or more meaning than the purported content.