What is the General Consensus?

[Hierro]

Nothing I said was deceptive or untrue.

Oh, honey.

TBN breaks even in its cost. To understand that statement, it means that whether that resource was used for your "offensive abilities" or on TBN makes no difference, the DPS will be the roughly the same. This means that DRK only stands to gain by using TBN so long as the shield breaks, which is no challenge on a 7 second duration. The DRK gains mitigation and keeps their damage. The same could not be said for WAR's Inner Beast. As far as damage goes, the point of showing top performance is what a job is capable of. Is it behind? A bit, but only a bit. Again, when you look at the facts objectively, the doom and gloom surrounding the opinion on DRK leads to people disregarding said opinions.

Your hyperbole has no meat, and I'm quite hungry.

[Shurrikhan]

Honestly, for Dark Knight, it's not doom and gloom when it's the absolute truth.
Poor mitigation, lacking in offensive ability and an over reliance on multiple, separate resources.

And yet you're found in progression parties and top speedkills alike.

It's plain that DRK has disadvantages, gameplay-wise and technically and I'll agree they are worth fixing (though I'd suggest that many of the ones I most want for a more intuitive and engaging DRK should probably wait until Defiance buffs oGCD healing and some of the latest PLD nerfs are reverted at least partially).

But, it's also not to an extent that is actually forcing them out of compositions except in the circumstances where people could have been saved once per 90 or 120 seconds by Vit melds... or a DV/SiO, which usually come already as a fault of slow shielding on the AST's or SCH's part, or else amount to merely a more flexible use of CU, ES, Indom, or Assize.

Also, at 140 potency above Souleater's, or at a base equal to Souleater's DA use, a Bloodspiller as generated by TBN already pays off its own cost. It provides 140 potency. Just like every other viable ST use of DA outside of CnS.

[Xan_Kriegor]

And yet you're found in progression parties and top speedkills alike.

I was kinda curious about this statement so I went to fflogs to check it.
I checked the top 5 speedkills in every phase of Sigmascape and their tanks.

Phantom Train: 5 PLD, 5 WAR
Demon Chadarnook: 4 PLD, 4 WAR, 2 DRK
Guardian: 5 PLD, 5 WAR
Kefka: 5 WAR, 3 PLD, 2 DRK
God Kefka: 5 WAR, 5 PLD


You are right, DRK is found at some speedruns comps but he is clearly in a worse position than PLD and WAR. He is somewhat like WHM that has only 3 appearances in those comps that I analyzed. However WHM is the healer which has the highest number of parses while DRK has less than 1/3 of the other two tanks:

All Bosses Sigmascape total number of parses:
PLD: 33,209
WAR: 32,073
DRK: 10,951

WHM: 31,006
SCH: 30,576
AST: 14,502

I know, it is still too soon in this patch to jump to conclusions. But for me it is clear that DRK doesn't have a niche where it excels.

[Shurrikhan]

You are right, DRK is found at some speedruns comps but he is clearly in a worse position than PLD and WAR. He is somewhat like WHM that has only 3 appearances in those comps that I analyzed. However WHM is the healer which has the highest number of parses while DRK has less than 1/3 of the other two tanks:

All Bosses Sigmascape total number of parses:
PLD: 33,209
WAR: 32,073
DRK: 10,951

WHM: 31,006
SCH: 30,576
DRK: 14,502

I know, it is still too soon in this patch to jump to conclusions. But for me it is clear that DRK doesn't have a niche where it excels.

(WHM also has the lowest rDPS and participation in speedkills, however. Parses =/= strength. It's more a measure of perception and of gameplay.)

Honestly, I don't find these numbers all that frightening or signifying of massive imbalance. (Again, I do think DRK needs more, something its own other than damage. I just don't think, to use Aniya's words that the "doom and gloom" is an "absolute truth." It far closer than that.)

Despite the carryover from rigidly "PLD or I quit" PLD mains from ARR to HW, those numbers still seem far more even than Gordias or the like. Parse counts, also, tend to stratify until someone proves what all the trailing class is really capable of and only then snowball back towards balance. Though the instances are fewer, the damage and total mitigation from the DRKs present seems wholly competitive for fights not steeped in raid damage.

Heck, the funny thing is that, say, in Phantom Train, if there were simply two DRKs they could as easily perform many of the tank-specific uptime strats that DV and SiO afford. PLD will remain invaluable in 6 due to HG-Soak + HS spam, but maybe if we saw greater SAM viability we'd be able to avoid WAR even in the few comps that wouldn't necessarily pull the desired rDPS out of a NIN. Perhaps if physical DPS just had a few more noticeable mitigation tools and/or casters more Magic Defense so that a single TBN could cover a particular eHP disadvantage rather than requiring -- due to multiple being thus disadvantaged -- a raidwide shield, then we might see more DRK value in Kefka.

Its value is entirely conditional, and I'd hate to see yet another homogenization forced upon us to deal with a categorical gap when the category (e.g. raidwide mitigation) shouldn't be outright mandatory to begin with. I'd like to see DRK's gameplay and sense of intuitiveness improved upon first, and perhaps even rebalances made towards other DPS's surrounding kits before we even consider, say, a DA-raidwide effect from DM or Shadow Wall making an actual wall, as neat as those would be. We don't need a TankAntiSlashing 2.0 obligatory effect.

[reivaxe]

All three are capable of doing content effectively, even if one is grossly disadvantaged by simply having it's fault ignored repeatedly, they all three can perform their base function, that being to tank. Warrior and Paladin simply excel at it compared to Dark Knight. Warrior is seemingly based around the idea of doing more with less, Paladin has a cooldown and utility for almost every situation, and Dark Knight is the opposite of both and requires vastly more effort to achieve the the same results with no consideration or extra reward for the effort put in to doing so.

As someone who is a level 70 Pld and leveling both War and Drk (both up to 55 as of now) I agree completely with this.
Friend asked me how I like them and I told her that "War feels amazing and fun! Drk ... feels like I'm pushing 2.5 more buttons to still be a worse than the other 2 tanks"

[Squintina]

The general consensus is they all can do it, but that in theory (in theory) PLD = better raidwide def, WAR = more deeps, DRK = needs some love.

But a player who's good is the #1 important factor. People who care enough about meta to enforce it, instead of just theorize over it, are either speed runners or sucky players who need to rely on meta to overcome their own party's lack of skill.

[Chrono_Rising]

General consensus is tank order goes:

(1) Warrior
(2) Paladin
(3) Dark Knight

I would guess most people feel the (1) and (2) spot are fairly comparable and at times interchangable, and the third spot is in need of attention. How much attention Dark Knight needs is something people disagree on.

Why? Dark Knight has comparable dps to paladin on a striking dummy, but usually falls behind slightly when fights have down time. Paladin makes up for this lower dps compared to warrior with utility, it buys lots of healer uptime, but Dark Knight doesn't seem to bring much in the way as a counter balance here. Weird design issues: The tank which is hurt the least by down time has 2 knock back cancellations and a gap closer with a longer range all on shortish cooldowns, the tank hurt in the middle here has knockback prevention and no gap closer and powerful ranged attacks to minimize downtime, and dark knight is hurt the most by down time has no knockback prevention 1 gap closer with a shorter range and loses quite a bit of dps if you need to hold that gap closer and lacks a powerful ranged attack to minimize the uptime.

As for mitigation, Dark Knight does not have a native cooldown which lasts longer than 10 seconds. Most of its kit is set up well for tank busters, and if you find yourself low on HP has a powerful mitigation tool in the form of TBN. However, it offers little in physical turns and offers less overall mitigation on busters than paladin. Dark knight also suffers here on fluff damage because its short duration cooldowns do not necessarily cover damage outside of busters.

In terms of utility dark knight doesn't really offer much for groups, as compared to warrior and paladin. Warrior and Paladin are fairly comparable because though warrior is bringing more dps paladin is bringing a number of utilities that allow healers to contribute more to groups. The dps/utility allows healers to contribute more to groups.

[Nedkel]

General consensus is.
If you want to play a tank, you should be playing world of tanks, because tanks in this game are DPS class that lives only because healers heal them. xD

Idk why people are obsessed with mitigation all that much, its not like warrior has it any better.
His tank stance only gives him bonus heal, it will not save him from tank buster.
Raw intuition is straight 20% dmg reduction from parry, vengeance has 30% same as the DRK one cd.
He has 2 heals, 1 of which increases his hp by 20%, has shake it off and thats it.
But he lacks a proper tanks stance, he doesnt have any dmg reduction from it, DRK has and has a TBN, those both are enough to sustain any tank buster you want and you could do extra by activating CD ability.
Since most of the tank busters are magic based (i think they are :P), DRK has 2x 30% mitigation CD, a good shield, 20% perma dmg reduction, and role cd.

Paladin has sheltron, sentinel which is 10% stronger than DRK or warrior has, 20% damage reduction stance, hallowed ground, useless bulwark for tank busters and well a shield, but it doesnt matter if you keep using it for sheltron, and a heal that will only hurt you using it.

So whats the point?

DRK is way more useful againt tank busters, paladin has his use on dungeons pull, and warrior is something in the middle.

Let me sum it again
DRK:
- 20% damage reduction stance
- 20% hp shield with 15 second cooldown that does not hurt your dps to use it
- Dark mind 15-30% magic reduction on 60 sec cooldown
- shadow wall 30% on 180 sec
- Living death 300 sec cooldown
Warrior:
- 20% healing boost stance - it will not save you if the boss suddenly decide to rip 90% your health bar off, you will need to pray to the healer.
- 60 sec cooldown heal, well this will not make you tankier either.
- 20% heal/hp increase 120 sec cd
- vengeance 30% on 120 sec cd
- Holmdgang 180 sec cd
- Shake it of, 8% hp shield every 60 sec, could be use with some other cd's to increase effeciency, but to be honest its not perfect, and need a perfect timing to make a full use of it. Its perfect party shield, but lackluster tank buster deffence.
- raw intuition 20% mitigation from parry only on physical dmg 90 sec cd, im pretty sure its useless in sigma, at least not as a tool that will help you surviving some stuff, and oh dont turn around or you will get hit for 50% hp. xD
PLD:
- 20% dmg reduction stance
- Sentinel 40% on 180sec
- bulwark 60% more blockrate, barely any use on tank busters and etc 180 sec cd
- tempered will, passage of arms, intervention, cover are utility abilities will not make you harder to kill to the boss
- divine veil, a shocking 10% extra hp, 120 sec cd, good for party to have
- shieltron guaranteed block around 20% mitigation, need gauge and the fastest way is to auto attack with 2.8 sec delay for 5 gauge each, and this takes around 25-30 seconds to recharge, faster if you use holy spirit, but still it takes half of the mp bar to use holy spirit and due to that resource is far worse to manage than MP for DRK used for TBN, and DRK doesnt even need to turn the stances, where PLD kinda needs to, block frequency is all random and makes it impossible to stack gauge if you fight 1 target.
- hollowed ground and 420 sec cd
- clemency, that will only help your team to hit enrage timer

So? Where is that giant disadvantage in mitigation?
Nowhere, pld may seem only better in dungeons and bigg pulls, DRK is more reliable to tank the main content of the game he doesnt have almost any utility, but he is easier to tank, PLD is superior as a support tho and warrior is for dem dps records.