Community Discussion - Battle Theory

[Sephr]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

I think the way they could've done this was through *unique resource mechanics*. For example, instead of stripping cross class capabilities, include a mechanic specific to that class that substantially optimises that class's own skills when used effectively.

Perhaps an example of this could be Pug getting something like 'Focus' or whatever from performing combos and using skills that are native to Pug (but NOT other class skills), which it can then apply to other abilities to augment them (for example, they might be able to use a skill to activate the stored focus, and then the next Second Wind applies a strong regen and can be used on someone else) or perhaps it could be used as a resource to activate some skills like their elemental fist abilities.

If the mechanics were substantially different from one another and worked in other ways than TP and MP, they could be pretty great. As an aside, TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time, I don't see why it's used globally across classes in this game.

Edit: The other benefit would be that classes could be broader to accompany more jobs being added to them in the future, in their present build THM is pretty much a weaker BLM, once they add the second wave of jobs to existing classes they'll feel shoehorned unless the basic skillset is changed a lot.

Edit2: What about class-unique buffs and auras to help convince people to bring others along? The downside I can see is that content would have to be balanced with them in mind if they are substantial, and it might push it the other way where only one of each class is invited.

What is it that makes this happen in FFXIV and not in other games so much? I guess the ease of class changing but I'm not sure how that can be avoided outside of swap timers or something, and that would suck.

[Jennestia]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.

TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time

That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

[syntaxlies]

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.



That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

[Fated]

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

"Find me the exact quote, post, syllable he used to state this NOW NOW NOW!!!!1"

[syntaxlies]

"Find me the exact quote, post, syllable he used to state this NOW NOW NOW!!!!1"

Status Ailment Spells and Instant Cast Spells
For casting classes, we will be allocating status ailment spells to each class.
They will be given debuff spells ranging from the core: sleep, paralyze, bind, charm, and heavy to spells that will lower enemy’s stats and resistance to magic.
(We are also planning to add a lot of spells to the currently existing classes at the time of 2.0.)

there you go

flame proof shied blocks exexias attack i take 0 damage

[Jennestia]

there you go

flame proof shied blocks exexias attack i take 0 damage

Funny thing is, those spells are currently in the data still and ignoring tier 2-3 versions, it still won't be that many depending on what is implemented with WHM and BLM in februrary.

[syntaxlies]

Funny thing is, those spells are currently in the data still and ignoring tier 2-3 versions, it still won't be that many depending on what is implemented with WHM and BLM in februrary.

depends on what you call a lot. percentage speaking adding 5 spells to each casting class would be considered a lot.

[Elexia]

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

You seriously don't know what the term white knight means. Everyone agrees that the quality of abilities far outweighs the numbers. Yoshida saying mages need more skills doesn't mean he's saying they need 200 skills, it just means they need more quality skills and the first step of that was allowing the basics to scale with level.

[Reaujien]

You seriously don't know what the term white knight means. Everyone agrees that the quality of abilities far outweighs the numbers. Yoshida saying mages need more skills doesn't mean he's saying they need 200 skills, it just means they need more quality skills and the first step of that was allowing the basics to scale with level.

^pretty much this