Community Discussion - Battle Theory

[syntaxlies]

Or if say having a MRD in the BR added Phys. Def down and having a PGL in the BR added Phys. Atk down. Stuff like that. Encourage a variety of classes to take part in the BR.

theres a number of ways they can approach it to encourage diverse party's, i just hope they take advantage of the opportunity.

[Headseed]

Hey Brent...
yea... having 2 possibilities for each incap could work... you'd just have to make sure you dont have 1 class that can do all 3 or else people will just stack that class again.
Also, making it so only 1 class can do a certain incap would work as long as the content is still beatable without the incap. The special objective should just make the fight easier

I see your point Sooooo as long as each job could be included on 1 of the Incaps then every job would be useful. bare with me I take a bit longer to catch on than most lol.

[Sephr]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

I think the way they could've done this was through *unique resource mechanics*. For example, instead of stripping cross class capabilities, include a mechanic specific to that class that substantially optimises that class's own skills when used effectively.

Perhaps an example of this could be Pug getting something like 'Focus' or whatever from performing combos and using skills that are native to Pug (but NOT other class skills), which it can then apply to other abilities to augment them (for example, they might be able to use a skill to activate the stored focus, and then the next Second Wind applies a strong regen and can be used on someone else) or perhaps it could be used as a resource to activate some skills like their elemental fist abilities.

If the mechanics were substantially different from one another and worked in other ways than TP and MP, they could be pretty great. As an aside, TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time, I don't see why it's used globally across classes in this game.

Edit: The other benefit would be that classes could be broader to accompany more jobs being added to them in the future, in their present build THM is pretty much a weaker BLM, once they add the second wave of jobs to existing classes they'll feel shoehorned unless the basic skillset is changed a lot.

Edit2: What about class-unique buffs and auras to help convince people to bring others along? The downside I can see is that content would have to be balanced with them in mind if they are substantial, and it might push it the other way where only one of each class is invited.

What is it that makes this happen in FFXIV and not in other games so much? I guess the ease of class changing but I'm not sure how that can be avoided outside of swap timers or something, and that would suck.

[Radav]

Yes! We definitely need something to promote cross diversity in these fights. As most everyone has mentioned yes some of this is community driven. Unfortunately the devs don't help by giving Archers such a large advantage over every other DD class by making their combos only require range. Why wasn't there a positional requirement attached to the Archers' WS?

Anyway, I agree 100% with the OP. Something like this would be fun and bring other classes into the fights. They've mentioned they were going to add bosses with multiple points to attack and defeat in 2.0. A system where you achieve those incapacitation by comboing across classes would be perfect.

I'd like to see the combat against bosses really require some coordination in this regard. To add to the the OP why is defense never considered.

Imagine a PLD and WAR being able to perform a defensive combo that resulted in a safe area for the party to fall into while Leviathan's astral engulfs the party in a huge wave and then a WHM or BRD could cast a buff of some kind and enhance the defensive position with a beefed up HOT. Any reason why defense is never really used as a combat mechanic beyond us having to stack a certain resistance or "do the dance" to avoid the boss's attacks?

[Jennestia]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.

TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time

That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Nothing new to say here, just chiming in as another supporter of the OP's idea.

[Rydin]

Nothing new to say here, just chiming in as another supporter of the OP's idea.

thanks... I appreciate it
I hope I meet up with you guys come server merge/transfer

[Brak]

Diggin the ideas here, I just hope that XIV doesn't implement the Proc system from XI...

[syntaxlies]

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.



That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

[Abauge_Goga]

OP, I like where you are headed with this. We need the ability to have diversity in a party without taking away the THM burn style parties. It would only make things interesting.