Community Discussion - Battle Theory

[Headseed]

+1 for all of this Rydin I don't care what Poet says about you (j/k) you are onto something here . The only thing I would say is if you restrict the incaps to 1 class then you know that people will say they need each of those classes. However most people have most if not all classes leveled.

My solution would be maybe have a couple different combos available to do each Incap. So the shield incap could be done with Lnc/ Mrd or Lnc/ Pug with pug doing Pounce > Sucker Punch form the side. or any combo of those 4 jobs.

Again great post and great ideas ^.^

[Rydin]

+1 for all of this Rydin I don't care what Poet says about you (j/k) you are onto something here . The only thing I would say is if you restrict the incaps to 1 class then you know that people will say they need each of those classes. However most people have most if not all classes leveled.

My solution would be maybe have a couple different combos available to do each Incap. So the shield incap could be done with Lnc/ Mrd or Lnc/ Pug with pug doing Pounce > Sucker Punch form the side. or any combo of those 4 jobs.

Again great post and great ideas ^.^

Hey Brent...
yea... having 2 possibilities for each incap could work... you'd just have to make sure you dont have 1 class that can do all 3 or else people will just stack that class again.
Also, making it so only 1 class can do a certain incap would work as long as the content is still beatable without the incap. The special objective should just make the fight easier

[Headseed]

Hey Brent...
yea... having 2 possibilities for each incap could work... you'd just have to make sure you dont have 1 class that can do all 3 or else people will just stack that class again.
Also, making it so only 1 class can do a certain incap would work as long as the content is still beatable without the incap. The special objective should just make the fight easier

I see your point Sooooo as long as each job could be included on 1 of the Incaps then every job would be useful. bare with me I take a bit longer to catch on than most lol.

[Sephr]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

I think the way they could've done this was through *unique resource mechanics*. For example, instead of stripping cross class capabilities, include a mechanic specific to that class that substantially optimises that class's own skills when used effectively.

Perhaps an example of this could be Pug getting something like 'Focus' or whatever from performing combos and using skills that are native to Pug (but NOT other class skills), which it can then apply to other abilities to augment them (for example, they might be able to use a skill to activate the stored focus, and then the next Second Wind applies a strong regen and can be used on someone else) or perhaps it could be used as a resource to activate some skills like their elemental fist abilities.

If the mechanics were substantially different from one another and worked in other ways than TP and MP, they could be pretty great. As an aside, TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time, I don't see why it's used globally across classes in this game.

Edit: The other benefit would be that classes could be broader to accompany more jobs being added to them in the future, in their present build THM is pretty much a weaker BLM, once they add the second wave of jobs to existing classes they'll feel shoehorned unless the basic skillset is changed a lot.

Edit2: What about class-unique buffs and auras to help convince people to bring others along? The downside I can see is that content would have to be balanced with them in mind if they are substantial, and it might push it the other way where only one of each class is invited.

What is it that makes this happen in FFXIV and not in other games so much? I guess the ease of class changing but I'm not sure how that can be avoided outside of swap timers or something, and that would suck.

[Jennestia]

One thing I didn't get was why the immediate method of making classes unique was stipping them down to basics rather than adding something unique to them?

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.

TP is a crap resource because it limits what you can do 90% of the time

That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

[syntaxlies]

Quality > Quantity. In MMOs where you have 8000 skills per class you're almost guaranteed to use only about 20 max, given the same skill gets rehashed into a higher version under a different animation but does the exact same thing, just a bit more damage or aftermath effect lasting longer.

The strip down of skills was only part of it and we've yet to fully get the rest of the system (job system) so it all can fall into place when they fully implement what they're doing.



That's the point -- This game shouldn't be a zergfest, TP is there to limit your spamming lol. If you're wise you can spam combos on Lancer for example, it's all in knowing how and when to use abilities with your TP.

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

[Fated]

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

"Find me the exact quote, post, syllable he used to state this NOW NOW NOW!!!!1"

[Elexia]

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

You seriously don't know what the term white knight means. Everyone agrees that the quality of abilities far outweighs the numbers. Yoshida saying mages need more skills doesn't mean he's saying they need 200 skills, it just means they need more quality skills and the first step of that was allowing the basics to scale with level.