Throwing the tome: 4.2 Summoner Feedback

[Shurrikhan]

Would it be better if you could not use aetherflow outside combat like what they did for warrior infuriate so you would not need waste first dreadwyrm stance?

At that point they may as well just make it passive generation, at once per 20 seconds, with progress paused during DWT.

Though I've no idea why you'd want that. It'd take a huge network of reworks such that you're allowing your pet to cast (what allows you to cast (what allows your pet to cast)) what allows you to proc an Aetherflow stack such that passive generation feels at all rewarding or cohesive.

[Sunako]

At that point they may as well just make it passive generation, at once per 20 seconds, with progress paused during DWT.

Though I've no idea why you'd want that. It'd take a huge network of reworks such that you're allowing your pet to cast (what allows you to cast (what allows your pet to cast)) what allows you to proc an Aetherflow stack such that passive generation feels at all rewarding or cohesive.

Lol I did not say I want that. I just ask if rotatio would be smoother that way. I can play current summoner without any issues.

[plasmacutter]

I main sch but I cannot stress the need for decoupling pet group buffs from the pet's GCD queueing system or at least offering a /pac clearqueue_and_execute_the_next_command for macro use.

I'm so.. so.. SO.. SO... SOOOOOO tired of hitting a whispering dawn macro and having the thing go off 15 seconds later (literally).

There used to be "tricks" you could use to clear the queue like add a half dozen pet stance changes but that apparently no longer works so it's just legacy garbage.

This has been going on since ARR, but now the pace of combat is so rapid it cannot be ignored any longer.

As for the rest of the feedback: I really LOVE summoner casting archetypes no matter the game, but the lack of cohesion and keyboard mozart rotation has really turned me off of SMN.

Smn really needs work to make its play flow better. A rotation that differs between 3 phases is actually pretty neat, but the contention and sheer number of hotbar items required to transition in the current setup is arduous.

[Neela]

I'm so.. so.. SO.. SO... SOOOOOO tired of hitting a whispering dawn macro and having the thing go off 15 seconds later (literally).

well since macros for player skills sucks 99% of the time as well... why would anyone use them for pet skills at all? They are already less responsive without an extra macro-cutdown q.q

[ShariusTC]

Do you think smn pet will do better if they give them a gambit system like ff12 in which can be customized by player?

[Kitfox]

If they just made all pet abilities instant without silly cast times, they would be a lot more responsive. The cast time adds nothing to the system and only serves to prevent any abilities queues.

[Kurando]

snip .

All SMN pet actions are insta-cast and only have recast timers. The only pets that have actual casting time are Garuda base attacks and ACN pet, though even then it's only one or two actions. SCH fairy has casting time on Embrace and Whispering Dawn but that's for obvious reasons.

[Kitfox]

All SMN pet actions are insta-cast and only have recast timers. The only pets that have actual casting time are Garuda base attacks and ACN pet, though even then it's only one or two actions. SCH fairy has casting time on Embrace and Whispering Dawn but that's for obvious reasons.

And which ones did you think I meant? ._. Instant Wind Blade would be so good for Contagion consistency, not to mention every single SCH cursing Eos abilities since the launch of game.

[Grimoire-M]

I've spoken about this before, but I'll pop in another thread.

The problems with SMN are as follows:
- 1) Aetherflow Lockouts should have never been a thing.
- 2) Bahamut and DWT should have been integrated into the same cooldown in the first place.
- 3) Pets should not have utility cooldowns. We should get utility based on pets and empower their abilities until the system is fixed.

Most of their new abilities and buffs they got are patches to problems that the above introduced.


Here's what I'd do to fix it:

Phase 1 [Restore HW functionality]:
1) Remove the Aetherflow Lockouts. Allow Aetherflow and DWT to work together. This is an amazing buff and QoL improvement.
2) Change DWT into Summon: Bahamut at 2 Dread Wyrm Aether stacks. Because of this, we only get 1 bahamut every 3 DWT, which is a heavy nerf in of itself and should more than counteract 1.
3) Make Bahamut use Akh Morn when you use Enkindle. Akh Morn is no longer a separate ability.
4) Bahamut only procs Wyrm Wave on spells. Aetherflow Abilities and Addle no longer proc it. Due to this, increase spell/attack speed while under the effect of Summon: Bahamut in addition to DWT's other effects.
5) Remove the cooldown reset on Tri-Disaster. Reduce its cooldown to 30s, and only make it available during DWT. This is a minor nerf and a lockout that actually makes sense.
6) Only make Ruin III/IV available during DWT/Summon: Bahamut. IV now replaces II during that phase. Nerf II back to 80 potency and buff III to 170 potency and remove the instant cast to encourage staying still even more. You'll clip during 60 content but at 70 it won't be worth it anymore.

Phase 2 [Fix our kit till we can fix pets]:
4) Remove the Phys Vul up from Ifrit's Radiant Shield and rework Contagion to be a single target DoT.
5) Remove Ruination on Tri-disaster. Make it apply an effect based on the pet that's out for the same duration. Magic Vul Up for Garuda, Phys Vul Up for Ifrit, Damage Down for Titan, and Vul Up for Bahamut. Make the Magic Vul up stronger to account for magic/phys damage disparity in the average comp but the universal Vul Up should be weaker than it or the Phys Vul Up. Something like 15/8/5. Apply the pet-based debuff before the DoTs in priority so they get the full benefit.
6) Enkindle Proc removed. Enhanced Enkindle now reduces Enkindle's cooldown to 60s at 68.
7) Ruin IV Proc reworked to grant III/IV outside of DWT. Procs are not consumed during DWT and can stack up to 3-5 times.
8) Consider allowing Bahamut to trigger Ruin IV's proc. Definitely make him stationary and attack your primary target regardless of distance from him.

Phase 3 [AoE]:
1) Revert the 4.0 Bane Nerf.
2) Remove Tri-Bind's potency buff. Keep the Mana Cost reduction but reduce Tri-Bind's Mana Cost outside of DWT.

And for anyone wondering, you can time your pet ability usage during Wind Blade/Embrace to ensure what you want goes off next. They appear to auto pick their commands based on 1s timers sorta like macros, with manual commands taking a second to override. Right after Wind Blade's Cast and halfway through Embrace's Cast seems to be the best time to punch in a command. At least that's how I've gotten it to work consistently.

[Kurando]

snip

Well declaring that "all pet abilities" should be instant suggests you thought many actually were not *shrugs*. To be honest Contagion isn't there just to boost your pet's damage, yes it benefits from it but yourself and the party get so much more out of it. What you suggest it like asking RDM to have all insta-casts after using Embolden because it benefits from increased Magic damage, that would be silly. Timing a rotation would easily take advantage of Contagion, perhaps it could do with an extra sec or two but otherwise it works. Though just like a couple of the Eos skills they are abilities and not spells, thus they have to balanced in someway to prevent constant uptime.