Surprisingly, The outdated MMO is WOW, not FFXI/XIV1.2

[Maeka]

I know shouting and waiting for a group is not very fun,

How about this: remove Duty Roulette, or make it less rewarding.
Add a auto match feature for local server ,or each map/zone.
group size can be 2-8 people, the enemy strength & rewards are base on group size.

Bring back the 1.1x job quests, Faction leves, Hamlet Defense or something like that,
FATEs are boring!

With Duty Roulette, you can sometimes meet awesome people that you would have never met otherwise. Why would you want to get rid of this?

[loreleidiangelo]

So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). Sure, you were required to group up, but no one was actually required to talk any more than you're required to make conversation in Duty Finder now, and sometimes people did and sometimes they didn't (and if they did it was to convey utilitarian stuff like "Feign Death on CD need a few seconds before pull").

I think the biggest difference in gaming that we're seeing now is mostly that the rewards aren't lasting because developers have learned that making massive exclusivity gaps hurts their bottom line. Whether its gear rewards, or level/exp rewards (as in, prestige from being a very high-level character in FFXI/EQ), those sorts of things seem insurmountable to someone with a family/job and MMO developers still want those dollars from those sorts of people. I don't think modern games are any worse than "oldschool" ones depending on how you look at it. I have more time now so I could definitely get behind sinking my teeth into something like FFXI (not paying a sub for it though, make it b2p or something and I'm there), but back when I worked 48 hour weeks FFXIV was enough gameplay for me, along with some MOBA matches or console games like Persona 5 on the side.

[Canopia]

So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). Sure, you were required to group up, but no one was actually required to talk any more than you're required to make conversation in Duty Finder now, and sometimes people did and sometimes they didn't (and if they did it was to convey utilitarian stuff like "Feign Death on CD need a few seconds before pull").

I think the biggest difference in gaming that we're seeing now is mostly that the rewards aren't lasting because developers have learned that making massive exclusivity gaps hurts their bottom line. Whether its gear rewards, or level/exp rewards (as in, prestige from being a very high-level character in FFXI/EQ), those sorts of things seem insurmountable to someone with a family/job and MMO developers still want those dollars from those sorts of people. I don't think modern games are any worse than "oldschool" ones depending on how you look at it. I have more time now so I could definitely get behind sinking my teeth into something like FFXI (not paying a sub for it though, make it b2p or something and I'm there), but back when I worked 48 hour weeks FFXIV was enough gameplay for me, along with some MOBA matches or console games like Persona 5 on the side.

I agree, Im always puzzled about the rose tinted retrospective.

[Maeka]

So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). Sure, you were required to group up, but no one was actually required to talk any more than you're required to make conversation in Duty Finder now, and sometimes people did and sometimes they didn't (and if they did it was to convey utilitarian stuff like "Feign Death on CD need a few seconds before pull").

^^
This.

WoW questing is infinitely better than FFXI questing. FFXIV is actually based upon WoW, so it seems kinda silly to say "I don't like WoW, but I play FFXIV" and then name Questing as one of the reasons as to why.

FFXIV has the very same "pick up x of this" or "kill x y z" or "examine this." or "kill named enemy". With the exception of the solo duties (WoW has a few of those too).

Now, I am not trying to say anything bad about the OP and everyone has rights to their opinions, but yet I am merely talking about how odd it is to say such a thing.

@OP: I will tell you one thing, though, is that WoW is easy early-game. Try not to judge it so fast. That, and they recently (within the last few weeks) slowed leveling down so that it feels more rewarding, and there's actual battles where enemies live longer than 3 seconds.

When you get into the Level 60+ range, it will feel a lot better, the areas will get a lot more interesting, and yes, while you don't have to read the quest text, you probably should on your first time through an area.

[Enkidoh]

I agree, FFXIV's modern style of questing is light years better than FFXI's neutered journal (which is just a summary on the quest and the quest giver's generic location), the idea with the old style one was it was to encourage exploration (by looking around the entire area and clicking on everything you see), but inevitably it just drove players to seek that info out on third party websites like Allakhazam, which usually the information was either outdated, inaccurate or incomplete. All FFXIV's modern style of questing has done is cut out that middleman and give you everything you need on screen (and besides, if you don't like the Duty List and the minimap telling you where to go and what to do in a quest, you can turn it off in the Config).

As for the OP, you're entitled to like 1.0 and think it's better, that is perfectly fine. And I admit there were some good things about it that I actually miss in ARR (the old GUI artwork, the old (1.23) cross class system, the Path of the Twelve and the Path Companions). But the reality is different, 1.0 not only damaged the FF name period it very nearly dragged SE down the drain with it.

For everything 1.0 actually did right, it just did so many more things wrong, and horribly wrong at that. So 1.0 thoroughly deserved it's bullet behind the ear. Thus, it is gone and is never, ever coming back. It is long past time to accept that and move on. Denial only holds you back.

[LastFireAce]

FFXIV 1.2 look scary....

[Maeka]

I tried 1.0 Beta, and... the Menus/UI were terrible, I couldn't really figure out what you were even supposed to DO, and something as simple as looting and finding out where the stuff went was hard, because everything was buried under layers and layers of menus and buttons just to access the most basic of functions.

And the camera.

Dear Lord, the awful camera. I don't know if that changed between Beta and 1.0 release, but your camera was fixed behind you and as you turned the camera did this weird... I don't know.... you'd hit left or right and your character would start running left or right, and the camera would slowly turn to compensate instead of staying fixed right behind your character's back at all times (like in WoW).

[Vhailor]

So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). Sure, you were required to group up, but no one was actually required to talk any more than you're required to make conversation in Duty Finder now, and sometimes people did and sometimes they didn't (and if they did it was to convey utilitarian stuff like "Feign Death on CD need a few seconds before pull").

I think the biggest difference in gaming that we're seeing now is mostly that the rewards aren't lasting because developers have learned that making massive exclusivity gaps hurts their bottom line. Whether its gear rewards, or level/exp rewards (as in, prestige from being a very high-level character in FFXI/EQ), those sorts of things seem insurmountable to someone with a family/job and MMO developers still want those dollars from those sorts of people. I don't think modern games are any worse than "oldschool" ones depending on how you look at it. I have more time now so I could definitely get behind sinking my teeth into something like FFXI (not paying a sub for it though, make it b2p or something and I'm there), but back when I worked 48 hour weeks FFXIV was enough gameplay for me, along with some MOBA matches or console games like Persona 5 on the side.

I never semi-AFK'd mob trains in FFXI, speaking personally. And I very much appreciated the ability to actually talk to people. Case in point, over my time in FFXI, I met at least half-a-dozen people that I'm still friends with roughly a decade later. I didn't meet them by chatting in some random throwaway Linkshell; I met them in parties, and then added them to my FL, and then partied together some more, and then started running content with. It was natural, and organic, and something entirely missing from FFXIV, where the only meaningful socializing happens via the 2018 equivalent of early internet chat rooms.

As to the quality, modern titles are absolutely worse than the older ones, at least in regards to MMOs. The modern MMO works, essentially, like a very large mobile game. There's little depth or challenge, beyond a few exceedingly difficult grinds or made-for-difficulty optional fights. It's easy to accumulate in-game currency; it's easy to level-up, and sometimes able to be purchased; the storylines are simplistic and easily grasped; there's never a question of where to go or who to talk to in order to complete a quest. Combat is typically reactive rather than strategic, twitchy rather than mental.

Old-school MMOs were built very differently. And, because of this, they demanded more of the player in order to really be enjoyed. The payoff, however, was vastly greater than anything a modern MMO can muster. They aren't even in the same league. Saying the modern MMO and the old-school MMO are just as good as each other, is somewhat like saying that Jerry Bruckheimer is as good a director as Stanley Kubrick. Bruckheimer's films might be fun popcorn flicks, but in no way are they equivalently "good" films to those made by Kubrick; they're simply more accessible to a wider audience.

^^
This.

WoW questing is infinitely better than FFXI questing. FFXIV is actually based upon WoW, so it seems kinda silly to say "I don't like WoW, but I play FFXIV" and then name Questing as one of the reasons as to why.

You mean FFXIV questing* for that first part, no? FFXI actually released before WoW did.

[Maeka]

You mean FFXIV questing* for that first part, no? FFXI actually released before WoW did.

No, because the OP says that FFXI questing was good, but WoW's wasn't.

I beg to differ, because FFXI quests, a character gives you the most cryptic and vague dialogue possible so that you have NO idea what you're even supposed to DO without looking it up on a wiki.

And yes, I know FFXI released before WoW did.

As for FFXIV questing vs WoW questing, eh.

Both, game mechanics wise, are almost exactly the same.

I'd give FFXIV the minor advantage of being better at presenting the story through little cutscenes rather than an exposition dump that hardly anybody reads.

[Krokov]

XI is not dying. There are still thousands who play it, Asura alone has at least 2000 players on it which granted isn't near what it used to be it still quite alot. It still get's updated just nothing major anymore.