The WOL and Mass Murder

[Musashidon]

no thanks i don't need fake DC/marvel logic, as it's complete trash.

we have helped everyone in eorzea and now others too, it's well known the WoL is good even when we were framed for a murder and treason people didn't believe it and accepted the truth afterwards when it was cleared up.

[KaivaC]

Assuming that FFXIV runs that far, is it really murder in war? It's not like the WoL is going out and seeking things to kill (in MSQ, that is). I highly doubt that the WoL is going to end up like the Warriors of Darkness. And it isn't as if story-wise, the WoL cares about politics. Why should we be held accountable when it's the Eorzean Alliance and various factions throughout that pointed us, the gun, at particular enemies and shot it?

[Caitlinzulu]

Assuming that FFXIV runs that far, is it really murder in war? It's not like the WoL is going out and seeking things to kill (in MSQ, that is). I highly doubt that the WoL is going to end up like the Warriors of Darkness. And it isn't as if story-wise, the WoL cares about politics. Why should we be held accountable when it's the Eorzean Alliance and various factions throughout that pointed us, the gun, at particular enemies and shot it?

Exactly the argument the nazi soldiers used when when ordered to commit atrocities. So even if you are ordered and you are a gun being pointed you still have your concience and the obligation to do whats right

[JunseiKei]

Exactly the argument the nazi soldiers used when when ordered to commit atrocities. So even if you are ordered and you are a gun being pointed you still have your concience and the obligation to do whats right

Not really replying directly to you, but rather the thread of conversation going here:

We're not the Alliance's gun. We work for the Scions. Just the Scions. We're helping Lyse in Stormblood as a favor, not to mention we had Shinryu and Omega Weapon to deal with. It's been stated time and again that the Scions are not part of the Alliance and will go wherever there is a primal threat foremost. As an adventurer, we are still drawn to conflicts and want to help our fellow man (see opening the Skalla dungeon). However, it does benefit us to help the Alliance, but they cannot command us (that's why they ask for help rather than demand it).

[DeaconMoore]

Assuming that FFXIV runs that far, is it really murder in war? It's not like the WoL is going out and seeking things to kill (in MSQ, that is). I highly doubt that the WoL is going to end up like the Warriors of Darkness. And it isn't as if story-wise, the WoL cares about politics. Why should we be held accountable when it's the Eorzean Alliance and various factions throughout that pointed us, the gun, at particular enemies and shot it?

War is just state sanctioned murder. Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to sleep at night but at the end of the day you're still killing people all the same. Hitmen are still held accountable for their kills. They don't get a free ride because it was someone else that paid and told them to kill.

As the warrior of light you are a murderer for hire. Or a murderhobo for hire if you're still homeless.

You start off killing anything and everyone you're asked and paid too.

You eventually move up to killing Eikons summoned by desperate beast tribes trying to protect themselves and their territory from the Eorzeans predations.

Later on in Ishgard you assassinate the rightful ruler and help install a new state that supports your Eorzean paymasters.

Then taking advantage of the situation on Balsaurs Wall launch an invasion of Ala Mhigo killing anything that opposed you.

The only negotiations the warrior of light seems interested in is in gathering soldiers to fight in their wars. In Ala Mhigo you recruit local insurgents to be the pr face of your "liberation" invasion. In Doma you find a lack of local insurgents and so you take advantage of the customs of the Steppe people to conscript them into your wars and in doing mark them as enemies of the empire.

[Musashidon]

War is just state sanctioned murder.

killing anything? i don't remember us every killing any civilians or children.

the rightful ruler? oh yea the one that lied and was part of a 1000 year war that did more damage than we ever will guess we should have left all well enough alone because killing evil people is wrong might as well let them live to kill because at least i wouldn't have killed anyone.

the garleans are on stolen soil and are still tormenting the places they have taken control of, we are in no way killing good people and saying well they are good in their eyes doesn't make it super evil all of a sudden.

morally we are the good guys until we go into the garlean country itself and start killing people there aka invading and not repelling.

you don't blame someone for defending themselves when someone is trying to steal from them/hurt them.

[Alacran]

War is just state sanctioned murder. Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to sleep at night but at the end of the day you're still killing people all the same. Hitmen are still held accountable for their kills. They don't get a free ride because it was someone else that paid and told them to kill.

As the warrior of light you are a murderer for hire. Or a murderhobo for hire if you're still homeless.

You start off killing anything and everyone you're asked and paid too.

You eventually move up to killing Eikons summoned by desperate beast tribes trying to protect themselves and their territory from the Eorzeans predations.

Later on in Ishgard you assassinate the rightful ruler and help install a new state that supports your Eorzean paymasters.

Then taking advantage of the situation on Balsaurs Wall launch an invasion of Ala Mhigo killing anything that opposed you.

The only negotiations the warrior of light seems interested in is in gathering soldiers to fight in their wars. In Ala Mhigo you recruit local insurgents to be the pr face of your "liberation" invasion. In Doma you find a lack of local insurgents and so you take advantage of the customs of the Steppe people to conscript them into your wars and in doing mark them as enemies of the empire.

Sanctioned murder huh? That goes for the pirates abuducting young girls in Sastasha one of them a young Miqote girl crying to her parents asking what she did wrong to deserve her fate, the cultist we stopped in the Tam-Tara Deepcroft. Perhaps we could have turned a blind eye to Ifrit tempering people, you can still see their black eyes and ashen skin in Thanaln should you want to be reminded of what you didn't stop. Look at what the Dark Knight represents and the corruption run rampant before we got there.

Dark Knight lore:

In the year 960 of the Sixth Astral Era, a commoner by the name of Tryphaniel the Unshod was granted knighthood for acts of valour upon the battlefield. A young man with an unwavering sense of justice, Tyrphaniel’s desire to champion the cause of the lowborn was undiluted by his entrance into the privileged world of the nobility. It was this same moral fortitude that bid him trail after clergyman after witnessing the robed figure drag a squirming child from the alleys of the Brume. The knight’s suspicions were confirmed when he entered the secluded domicile of the priest only to find him committing unspeakable acts upon the body of the abducted waif. Noticing his unexpected visitor, the clergyman attempted to explain away his vile actions as a form of “exorcism”, but the incensed Tryphaniel drew his sword without hesitation, and answered the babbled excuses with a single, fatal blow.

Rather than praise his heroism, however, the knight’s peers condemned him for slaying a holy member of the church. He was forced to defend his life in a trial by combat, but though he survived, it was decreed that he would be stripped of his knighthood. Unflinching in the face of accusations that he had fallen to darkness, Tryphaniel roared that he would gladly surrender a title that required him to turn a blind eye to a child’s suffering. He cast aside his crested shield - the symbol of his station - and continued his crusade for the commonfolk with no thought or fear for what others held taboo. His righteous deeds inspired some courageous few to embrace the path of the forbidden, and thus the legacy of the dark knight was born.

You need only recall For all the nights to come. (https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/F...Nights_to_Come) Tell that to the liberated comfort women of Ala Mhigo, You need only look to Yotsuyu became after being sold to the pleasure houses in Doma, during the occupation from Garlemald.

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Paint your picture however you want but know what the paint is made with.
Sanctioned murder? I call it Justice.

[DeaconMoore]

Paint your picture however you want but know what the paint is made with.
Sanctioned murder? I call it Justice.

Like I said guys, perform whatever mental gymnastics you need to to sleep better at night.

Calling murder justice now? Well it's a wonder the empire calls Eorzeans savages. It's certainly how barbarians define "justice".

[Alacran]

Like I said guys, perform whatever mental gymnastics you need to to sleep better at night.

Calling murder justice now? Well it's a wonder the empire calls Eorzeans savages. It's certainly how barbarians define "justice".

I have many regrets that may haunt my dreams were I in this world, failure to protect those in need, failure to act when needed, failure to save my friends, failure to live up to the hope trusted to me. Killing monsters? No, not for that, never that. To crush your enemies VII 175,063/ 200,000. Line up the tyrants, molesters, rapist, slavers, demons, and gods. My sword acts like a beacon to guide the meek through darkness.

[Musashidon]

Like I said guys, perform whatever mental gymnastics you need to to sleep better at night.

it's not about giving excuses that let me sleep at night its about hearing peoples opinions and having a discussion.

we are talking about fictional situations/events, chances are most people here have never killed someone.

saying *mental gymnastics and whatever helps you sleep* only shows us you are against killing at all but not why.

why would you if a war broke loose and enemy soldiers stormed your house and tried to kill you would you be like OK kill me.

the game does a good job at keeping us in a role that makes it easy to do what we do but not be at complete fault for what is happening just being one piece in the whole situation.