Does Garlemald have enough for full out war?

[SicariusSeven]

I always wondered this ever since the Baelsar's Wall instance and onward. Most of Stormblood I thought to myself "We're poking the hive, we're gonna get it now." However as shown in Stormblood we managed to retake two territories, though somewhat at a high cost.

Does Garlemald have enough to go full out and wipe us all out? I always felt that they did but they were busy with things back on their own homeland. If they wanted to, could they indeed just obliterate the Eorzean Alliance?

[lycropath]

Garlemald hesitates a lot with committing large forces to invade Eorzea because its a hornets nest of angry primals waiting to happen if the beastmen feel threatened enough. The fact that its now chewed and spat out four of the Empire's greatest warriors probably doesn't help either.

They likely have enough forces to mount a full invasion but doing so would leave provinces newly galvanized with the sparks of rebellion to stir trouble in the absence of their imperial overlords like Dalmasca did.

[Enkidoh]

I've long suspected that for all their bravado and sabre-rattling, Garlemald simply is not nearly as powerful as they make themselves out to be (that is a standard tactic in warfare after all: what better way to get your enemies to submit than to make your forces seem larger and more threatening than they really are?).

I mean, their initial conquests were successful more because either they caught their enemies off-guard before they could mount an active defense, or, in the case of Ala Mhigo, conspired behind the scenes for a decade by stoking instability and discord from within, allowing them to simply move in and take over when the nation inevitably tears itself apart from inside.

And let's not forget that the official website actually stated that when Garlemald first begun their conquest under Solus, their population was much much smaller than their enemies, and as such, their forces were much smaller too, relying on their airship fleets to overwhelm their opposition:

Unperturbed by their lesser numbers, the Garleans went forth upon gigantic flying warships, bearing powerful weaponry the likes of which the world had never seen.

This is hence why they drafted soldiers from conquered nations like Ala Mhigo to fill their army's ranks, and as that is not an option for them anymore, suddenly their forces have shrunk considerably (not to mention they have lost now four legions and their Legatee). And although their magitek weaponry is powerful, it is not invincible, especially when faced with powerful magical beings like Primals - Gaius found that out the hard way at Lake Silvertear.

In fact, it was the Primals and the dragons which brought their conquest to a spluttering halt, and more so, it is the Empire's dogged determination to battle those forces that has ironically doomed them - the Empire has wasted so much manpower, weapons and materiel on trying to exterminate them (with little to no success) that it's weakened them considerably.

No, the Empire is not nearly as powerful as they make themselves out to be, although that is not cause for complacency, they are still a threat and can still attack Eorzea or the newly liberated Othard if they desired. But their strength has been consistently overplayed and over-exaggerated, and this is a fatal flaw in their strategy, which will have devastating consequences for them.

[SicariusSeven]

This makes me wonder then if we actually have to save them at one point? Like they do something that ends up biting them in the rear and they plead for us to help them.

[Theodric]

Simply put, Garlemald is not a real threat simply because it isn't allowed to be a real threat.

Stormblood isn't a story about war. It simply pretends to be one - but it isn't willing to commit to showcasing the actual horrors, challenges and realities of war. I've seen enemy combatants crawl across the battlefield with their guts spilling out, using the last of their strength to try and shield a friend from stray bullets. I've seen enemy combatants look on in horror as the life fades from the eyes of their companions, igniting a desire for vengeance in their hearts. I've seen similar things play out amongst my own allies.

War isn't pretty. Even in fiction, it is not pretty - but then usually when a setting commits to showing the horrors of war it does not do so in a way that makes one side appear to be completely incompetent even when all the evidence points towards that not being the case at all. Eorzea has suffered immense losses in recent years, yet the amount of fresh soldiers and adventurers it manages to pump out on demand feels like quite the stretch.

Garlemald should be a considerable threat. Something that the protagonists should not want to face. It may be a grim necessity to have to do so, though. Yet at the same time, it's ridiculous that we end up seeing Garlemald's forces reduced to mere faceless fodder that gets demolished en masse. Every single soldier slain has family and friends. Their own reasons to fight. They may very well feel that their cause is just. That should be explored. Yet it isn't. So we get silly scenes like Estinien dodging hundreds of bullets at once...even though the soldiers firing at him are Garlean Purebloods (based on their armour accounting for a Third Eye). The same Third Eye that enhances their spatial awareness and thus increases their efficiency with firearms!

Or the scene where Xaela - who have never fought Garlemald's forces before - easily deal with magitek despite it being cemented in the lore book that even more advanced combatants failed to stand up to magitek upon encountering it for the first time. The story just isn't consistent where Garlemald is concerned and it likely never will be, sadly.

It's the same sort of tiresome tropes that plague things like Star Wars. Even when the protagonists mess up badly - like when Lyse decides to invite Tempered Beastmen into the throne room of Ala Mhigo - the obstacles are overcome fairly predictably and easily with minimal or zero meaningful losses or lessons learned. Yet those such as the Garleans who actually have depth and have made understandable mistakes after decades and decades of oppression and persecution? There's very little nuance shown. No attempt by the protagonists to understand their point of view or realise why such things came to happen in the first place.

Which, in war, is one of the worst things anyone can do. You learn everything you can about an enemy, you see things from their point of view to understand why they choose to do what they do. Things may get better, when the MSQ's stop pretending as if we've never seen any reasonable, nuanced Garleans before. Yet until then, I suppose things will continue along the current path - incompetent enemy commanders and soldiers galore. Why? Simply because it's cheap and easy - there might be some rare losses here and there but ultimately the protagonists are never in any real danger. Simply because the (sadly) predictable plot demands that Garlemald be rendered a hollow threat to secure Eorzea's victory over all else.

If nothing else, soldiers deserve to be portrayed in a more tasteful manner. I don't expect GRRM levels of grit and realism but it's be nice if they weren't reduced to being meatbags to be slaughtered easily, missing every shot and never putting up a meaningful fight or show any signs of depth or nuance.

I guess a lot of it is a consequence of this being an MMO and not a single player game. FFIX and FFXII handled a story of conquest with much more nuance. It even led people to sympathise with those responsible for and involved in war. Yet in FFXIV all the competence and nuance is tucked away in side quests that some people won't ever do.

[Claymore65]

I guess a lot of it is a consequence of this being an MMO and not a single player game.

I think this actually cuts down right to the heart of the issue. Having a consistent world that thousands, if not millions, of players need to experience at the same time puts up many limitations. It makes it much harder for villains to, for example, utterly destroy a city, since lower-level players still need to go there. It's the reason that, despite the XIVth legion being mostly defeated, they still have well-fortified and well-armed bases in the middle of Eorzea. It's the reason that, despite Garlemald destroying the rebels at Rhalgr's reach, the city is still available to visit afterwards. It brings a lot of limitations.

I think another reason, though, is that failure from a story perspective, while interesting, can also be frustrating and anti-climatic. To use an example from this thread, the Xaela tribes seemingly had no trouble adjusting to fighting Garlean war machines despite their presumed lack of experience fighting them. While that may not make a ton of sense, having them be completely ineffective against Garlemald would also make the entire arc of acquiring their aid feel pointless. It would also be tedious to have a "let's teach you how to fight Garlemald" segment each time we recruit an ally unused to fighting them. If you spend a lot of time in the story acquiring allies, for example, it's important to make that contribution feel meaningful. To use an example from another game, in Dragon Age Origins your travel the land acquiring allies to aid you in a big battle. During the battle, you get a random NPC from each faction you recruited, making you feel like your efforts are rewarded. This logic is especially important when it comes to video games. Most of the time, you want players to feel like they have agency, and are making meaningful contributions to the plot. Giving their efforts a successful payoff, such as having the Xaela rip apart Garlean ships in a cool cutscene, is one of the easiest and most satisfying ways to reward players. Similarly, having seemingly successful efforts fail is oftentimes frustrating, such as when you beat a character in a battle, but it turns out your opponent "actually beat you" in the cutscene immediately afterwards. Failure definitely plays a significant role in an interesting story, and makes the eventual victory much more satisfying, but it's a really tough balance to strike.

I don't personally think FFXIV has balanced the "Success:Failure" ratio exactly yet, but I do understand why they lean heavily towards making the player's own efforts successful. I would personally love to see a bit more Grey-Grey conflicts in the future, and they have found a measure of success with it in the past. I thought Heavensward did a decent job of balancing the Ishagardian/Dravanian conflict, with both sides holding onto past hatreds and avoiding avenues toward peace, and both sides requiring change. I don't really see the Eorzean:Garlemald conflict developing in the same way, but I definitely could see us interacting with and learning about the better sides of Garlemald in the near future. The existence of not only a more positive Garlean faction, the Populares, along with a named faction for them to oppose, the Optimares, hints toward a more peaceful situation with the nation eventually.

[Kallera]

You would think that the militarily advanced country would be able to a least win some battles in the game or treat their situation with the gravity that, say, an actual country would with armies encroaching in on them. At this point Alphinaud’s worries seem to be all bluster, and we’ll be at their gates in no time at all with every advantage and ally at our backs, because that’s how war works in jrpg land.

[ObsidianFire]

Garlemald was able to overwhelm their opponents because no one knew what magitek was or how to defend against it. Now that's no longer then case (thanks Cid) and the people they fight against know what magitek is and how to plan for it/around it. Oh, and their opponents are also better then aether manipulation then they are...

I see it less as that Garlemald is incompetent and more that the people they have been fighting against have figured out how to make their tech less effective then it was. Cid growing a conscious and sharing the ceruluem engine was a serious blow to their superiority.

[Lauront]

I agree on Cid being garbage.

Garlemald was able to overwhelm their opponents because no one knew what magitek was or how to defend against it. Now that's no longer then case (thanks Cid) and the people they fight against know what magitek is and how to plan for it/around it. Oh, and their opponents are also better then aether manipulation then they are...

I see it less as that Garlemald is incompetent and more that the people they have been fighting against have figured out how to make their tech less effective then it was. Cid growing a conscious and sharing the ceruluem engine was a serious blow to their superiority.

I don't think it's so much that as it is the WoL helping win key victories against them, as even Cid's plans require the WoL to actually execute them. Their magitek remains formidable and alliance forces are almost never shown as being able to overcome Garlean forces in direct conflict without the WoL's aid, which includes sabotage. It's not that their opponents are better at aether manipulation - they're not, unless we're talking about Garlean purebloods (and we can see how effective the Resonance is in closing that gap) - since the Empire includes many territories providing it with aether wielders, so it's moot. The exception to this being Sharlayan, which has formidable magical defences apparently, but the Eorzean alliance as such is unexceptional.

It's essentially the WoL plot armour at play. Without the Scions the alliance would be resolutely crushed.

Same reason Arthas just sat around waiting to be defeated, even though direct confrontation was not really possible. MMO lore devs aren't, apparently, a very creative bunch.

[Theodric]

It's just one of the many reasons as to why I loathe Cid. It'd be interesting if there was more depth to his defection, such as him being forced to face the reality of selling enemy secrets and getting the loved ones of his people killed as a result. The deepest reaches of hell are said to be reserved for traitors simply because how how despicable they are - yet too often in stories like this they're branded heroes. Regardless, Garlemald has been making considerable advancements in regards to Magitek over time - Cid being able to deal with everything Magitek related really just shows him for the convenient plot device he has become.

I'm inclined to agree with Kallera. There's little point in dragging out a 'war' if the war itself isn't going to actually amount to anything meaningful.