Please stop with the "no duplicates" and pigeon-holing our DPS into tiny windows

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If 20% of the damage is easily survivable with few vulnerability stacks, why wouldn't LB3 be used in that way?

First and foremost, it isn't survivable with a "few vulnerability stacks." You're also neglecting healers have shields and Warriors typically blow Shake it Off. Basically, you had a ton of outgoing mitigation to completely ignore Hakutei. Regardless, we have an example of this very oversight in Zurvan EX where, again, the devs outright acknowledged they never considered people would tank LB3 Soar and claimed it a new developer's inexperience. A likely factor in why they don't account for cheese strats is JP players rarely exploit them. They aren't doing tank LB3 for the most part and never did with Zurvan. It's strictly a NA/EU thing.

[Fynlar]

Your stance makes no sense. What benefit do they have to essentially lie and claim they never intended parties to rely on tank LB3 to cheese the mechanic if they actually expected people would? Tank LB3 simply gives 80% mitigation party wide, which omits virtually all of Hakutei's damage as it's entirely based on percentage.

Who says they need a "benefit"?

Bottom line is, if it were truly unintended, they would fix it. They haven't. I don't know about you guys, but for me, actions speak louder than words.

For another, they tend to get mad when people don’t do the content as they designed for it to be done.

Precisely. And they aren't getting "mad" about it here. What does THAT tell you?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Who says they need a "benefit"?

Bottom line is, if it were truly unintended, they would fix it. They haven't. I don't know about you guys, but for me, actions speak louder than words.

For someone claiming to have watch/read the live letter, you missed quite a few details. Yoshida explained they don't necessarily want to fix it since it's a strategy players came up with they simply didn't anticipate and doing so would punish them. Regardless, by your assessment, the exploit in O5S is equally intended. You know, the one where WAR or RDM tag the big ghost, blow it up in two GCDs and completely negate a mechanic that otherwise kills the entire raid if not done properly. Hmmmm.

[HyoMinPark]

Bottom line is, if it were truly unintended, they would fix it. They haven't. I don't know about you guys, but for me, actions speak louder than words.

Or, they could be considering the fact that if they patched that now, almost four weeks after release, the earfuls from people whining about how they can no longer cheese the mechanic they’ve been cheesing all along just isn’t worth it.

Precisely. And they aren’t getting “mad” about it here. What does THAT tell you?

Still tells me that tank LB3 strat wasn’t the intended strat. Otherwise, they never would have said “We didn’t intend for players to cheese this by using a tank LB3 for the second tiger”. The developers may have their faults, but they don’t strike me as the kind to lie about things like this.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I know what they said. My stance on it is still the same though. They wouldn't have just made it "do low enough damage to be survivable with tank LB3" when the game is no stranger whatsoever to attacks that just wipe the party outright if you don't do a mechanic as intended, no ifs ands or buts.

People do DPS the tiger, and you dont need to kill it. It's damage to you scales based on the damage you deal to it.
And with future iLv increases, the damage becomes more and more survivable.
It was never intended to kill you to begin with, since you didnt have to kill the tiger from the start.

[Fynlar]

For someone claiming to have watch/read the live letter, you missed quite a few details

I never claimed such a thing.

Yoshida explained they don't necessarily want to fix it since it's a strategy players came up with they simply didn't anticipate and doing so would punish them. Regardless, by your assessment, the exploit in O5S is equally intended. You know, the one where WAR or RDM tag the big ghost, blow it up in two GCDs and completely negate a mechanic that otherwise kills the entire raid if not done properly. Hmmmm.

I don't know what you are talking about, but that aside...

The tank LB has worked pretty much the exact same way for years now. They made it practically required for A12.

If you really believe it when they say they didn't properly account for a tank LB potentially being used in a battle strategy, I have this really cheap bridge that I'd like to sell to you.

People do DPS the tiger, and you dont need to kill it. It's damage to you scales based on the damage you deal to it.
And with future iLv increases, the damage becomes more and more survivable.
It was never intended to kill you to begin with, since you didnt have to kill the tiger from the start.

No kidding. I've done the fight, I know how it works. You have to weaken the first tiger cuz there's no LB3 available yet.

The point is, making the second tiger specifically survivable (when other things like enrages or other failed mechanics wipe the party no matter what) kinda points to the fact that tank LB was always intended to be a viable approach. Otherwise they'd have just made the tiger outright kill you if you ignored it, just like enrages or other failed mechanics.

[Shurrikhan]

First and foremost, it isn't survivable with a "few vulnerability stacks." You're also neglecting healers have shields and Warriors typically blow Shake it Off. Basically, you had a ton of outgoing mitigation to completely ignore Hakutei. Regardless, we have an example of this very oversight in Zurvan EX where, again, the devs outright acknowledged they never considered people would tank LB3 Soar and claimed it a new developer's inexperience. A likely factor in why they don't account for cheese strats is JP players rarely exploit them. They aren't doing tank LB3 for the most part and never did with Zurvan. It's strictly a NA/EU thing.

I've survived it as a Monk at 3 stacks (due to being forced by the line AoE into a misplaced expanding vuln zone) with nothing but Fists of Earth (in a trap PF where everyone else was dead). I was i350 and had lingering i320 food buffs, but as a single shield could more than make up for that and only NIN and ranged would have less magic eHP than I had, "few" (not "a few" as in ~3, but as in "3 or less") seems apt.

My point, anyways, is that no one ought to make a mistake twice, almost identically, and say that they didn't think it was readily able to be used in a given way... under near-identical conditions. Hell, we don't even have to worry about vuln because it's a guaranteed hit mechanic to which they've yet to figure out how to attach a conditional (e.g. based on %HP damage) debuff.

Also, JP were the first to make common use of Titan-tank for Ramuh Ex and SCH stack T5 in those respective cheese strats, and I saw just as many (i.e. 100%) of Zurvan PFs on the JP Datacenters demanding Soar skip when that was current content... Since when were JP considered as excluded from cheese strats? They may latch onto certain strats that provide relatively little advantage for their dependence on other gimmicks, such as with Byakko Tank LB3, but they're right up there with us as far as I can tell in terms of making such circumventions. They just tend to strategically enable personal underperformance less.

[Nestama]

Bottom line is, if it were truly unintended, they would fix it. They haven't. I don't know about you guys, but for me, actions speak louder than words.

Turn 2 enrage strategy says hello.

Funnily enough, there was a patch where it seemed SE did fix this strategy (the enrage would cast faster and such), but then they undid the fix and people could do the enrage again.

[Yeol]

About duplicated jobs
It is true that people do no want duplicated jobs because of LB3 and loot. People are probably using the LB3 start to be 'safe' since not many people have enough dps to do it the right way. Keep in mind that many people are still using their 340/350 sets. I think when people gear up, they won't be having issues with second tiger and just LB3 the boss instead.

About jobs with short burst windows
I see nothing wrong with that. Every job is different/unique on its own way. Some jobs rely on burst windows and other have steady dps throughout the fight. That is why CD alignment for raid dps is a thing. You might not prefer jobs with short burst windows, but there are others that totally enjoy it, variety is good

[TheDraco4011]

"No duplicates" is the only reason we aren't raiding with "7 Tanks and 1 Healer." I think exclusion of popular classes would be FAR greater if duplicates were allowed. I know for a fact my PLD would have never finished AS3 and AS4 if "Warrior ONLY" comps were allowed.

Um what? There's this thing called enrage. Warriors dont do THAT much damage.