Mmm...a good WAR can burst for 6,000 with the right comp, and have a relatively good sustain bordering around 3,500~4,000. WAR is pretty powerful right now lol. They aren’t a DPS, but they can still pull very high numbers.
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The LB gain rate is actual pretty noticeably lower when you have duplicate jobs. Running Byakko EX even with fairly good uptime and dps we would barely hit the LB3 for tank LB. With pretty much the same amount of uptime and DPS but with no duplicates we were able to get it well in advance.
A large part of the Meta is decided by the player community. 'No duplicates' is the only way to prevent the escalation of unwarranted meta turning into something like 'party looking for 2 war, 2 whm, 8 rdm,' etc.
'No duplicates' allow for the diversity of the playerbase. Other MMOs (i'm looking at you, ESO) got ruined by the meta in that it's always preferred to have a group of magic classes over melee classes, for example.
Unintended or not, they're fine with it.A14: We did not foresee this. Similar to the great strategy for the meteor phase in the Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 4, this was something the players created on their own, so we think this is good as-is. However, if you’re going to use tank limit break, make sure to discuss with your group beforehand
And btw, how is using tank lb to survive tiger more cheese then lets say, use melee/caster lb on an add?
Isnt it kinda cheesy to just lb3 the adds in O3s?
Wait, hold up.
The playerbase finds a use for tank lb3, and it isn't:
1) Literally necessary to complete the fight
2) worse to use than just another dps lb3
And people are calling it cheese?
In a thread complaining about a restriction that broadens class variety in party composition?
What the hell?
Lemme just say these things, and I'm almost willing to just outright state them as facts.
- This tank lb3 strategy is a wonderful and clever deviation from the norm, and I would love to see more fights where an LB3 other than dps LB3 is a party dps gain.
- The no-duplicates composition restriction is a great way to increase class variety without overly restricting your ability to complete content. To be honest, it's not going to actually affect your total number of limit breaks in a meaningful fashion most of the time. Byakko is an unusual exception.
If you really want to run two paladins in a byakko party, just do the mechanic correctly. You did it in phase 1, right?
I feel Machinist is mostly ok as it is, but loses to Bard in a few ways...
Warden's Paeon, BRD being able to remove or prevent statuses is extremely useful, would be nice if they gave something like that to MCH as well.
If they were to remake how the shots work, they should rework them entirely, as the current system of having a 50% to get to use the next shot with any actual damage (without using reload/quick reload) can have you just spamming Split Shot.
Maybe make it just a regular combo and rebalance the damages for that...
And BRD has 2 damage over time effects, the closest MCH has to DoTs is their turret, bring back Lead Shot.
I don't see these as problems. People choosing to make no-duplicate parties is a result of several design choices: having less party slots than jobs instead of the opposite, buffs and debuffs not stacking with themselves, the way the LB gauge works and loot systems. On the other hand people who play a popular job have to compete for party slots with others playing the same job, but on the other hand the people enjoying unpopular (usually worse performing) jobs have a better chance to join parties. I think it's a good thing that there is a benefit to playing an outcast job, but that's an opinion and not a fact. It lessens the pressure to choose a FOTM job over some other job a player enjoys more.
Having to cram moves into buff windows is not a problem as long as that's not the only play style available, and right now there are other more sustained dps options to choose from. Having options is the key. Bards and Machinists getting cast times was an issue of a play style being completely removed from the game, which was one reason why many people were against it. Melee suffer from lack of different play styles as they all have positionals and combos (tanks have the combo issue too). Going forward I hope we continue to have both "bursty" and sustained forms of damage and wish we'd get some melee or tank which doesn't use combos (or a healer which does).
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If your entire group consists of 95th percentile players, then you can actually make it all the way up to God Kefka assuming your healer is still putting out 1k damage. That margin will increase as gear levels continue to rise.
Thats not proof they intended you to use it.
The point is, making the second tiger specifically survivable (when other things like enrages or other failed mechanics wipe the party no matter what) kinda points to the fact that tank LB was always intended to be a viable approach. Otherwise they'd have just made the tiger outright kill you if you ignored it, just like enrages or other failed mechanics.
That just increased the likelyhood of it, before we found out what they said.
I simply explained how they could be in the mind set to not think of it.
again, he was intended to be made "easy" at higher iLvs in later patches, so you could survive, w/o tank LB, and w/o doing enough DPS.
(You'd still have to do SOME damage, but the amount of damage required is dependant on the amount of damage u could survive."
THAT is where they forgot tank LB is enough to survive it.
Even the 1st tiger can be survived at like 37% with high gear, and shields. (and obviously low dps)
Yes, they didnt design it so killing it is passing the mechanic, and anything else is 100% wipe.
Then again, a lot of "insta wipes" do damage, and going in as a Lv70, if its a Lv50 fight, can survive it sometimes.
So it's an easy mistake to do.
And the reason they wouldnt fix it, is most likely because they wanted high iLv groups to not have to work hard to win. (This is of course the assumption on my part.)
IDK about that. I know its possible in some cases, but liek with O5S, our WAR did 4k, our PLD did 3.5k, our DPS did 4.5k-5k, and healers 1k-1.2k
the 1st 2 weeks, we cleared no problem.
3rd week, same numbers, and HIGHER total DPS, and we lost to enrage with 5% still left.
take those same numbers, except the 2nd week, all dps did 4.8k-5k dps, our healers did 1.4 and 1.6k in O6S
we cleared the 1st 2 weeks no problem, 3rd week, those same numbers, and higher total DPS, lost to enrage at 10% hp left.
I almost think they changed the fights on the emergency maintenance before we did both of those fights on the 3rd week, maybe to try and counter this.
Last edited by Claire_Pendragon; 02-21-2018 at 12:53 AM.
CLAIRE PENDRAGON
Ohoho, but that's where you are wrong, this is raid finder's requirement for savage raids:
Not only do they see it, they enforce it pretty hard in their own match making system (while not used in NA/EU it is very popular in JP). Not only that but when they say party composition doesn't matter they are clearly not talking about duplicate jobs, because the LB penalty is something they 100% intentionally added to the game to discourage such compositions.
So you got it backwards, whenever you try to stack two of the same jobs you're the one playing against what devs intended, and your LB gets penalized as result.
Last edited by alimdia; 02-21-2018 at 01:13 AM.
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