To anyone from SE or the Developer Team I need your help in a theft situation

[Cthulhu]

/comfort Hobbes

I feel for you man. But as many have pointed out in this thread I don't think he violated the ToS. That being said he should have initiated a trade the second he saw he was paid about 14 mil for a repair.

SE should make a special emote called /nickzealot. It can use the snowball motion and it pelts Nick Zealot with a rotten tomato, instantly, no matter where he is in the game world. Adding a debuff called "The Foul Stench of Nick Zealot" would be a nice touch too devs. Any one in his linkshells or that has recently partied with him gets it. Too harsh?

[lackofwords]

Family Guy is a fictional show, you need to provide a case in real life for it to be valid.

Are you serious? You really want to argue over actual events when the morality issue is still the same?

Here is a real life issue that ties in closely to the Family Guy episode where Peter gets a check value in error.
Here; http://kotaku.com/5876174/bodycount-...sters-responds

A developer at Codemasters was paid an extra month paycheck at error of the company. The company ask for the money back for their accounting error.

Although this particular story is more messed up than anything we have here. The developer wants to return the money, but honestly can not do so financially in any timely manner.

[urhryu]

Why do you reply if you are uncapable of reading the entirety of his post. He did not get 11 mil back. He did not get 1 gil back for that matter. You are a heartless and uncompassionate creature. Go crawl back under whichever rock you came from.

Who said he got his 11mil back btw?
I said be thankful he is giving 11mil back (not gave 11mil back), and e guy rejected it cause he think it's too less, he wan full return. I think u did read e entire post just that your capability of comprehending is bad.

[Masamune1004]

You really want to argue over actual events when the morality issue is still the same?

It's not about the morality, the OP wanted SE to get his money back, which they are not responsible for. We all know that what Nick Zealot was wrong, but that isn't the topic. I guess I assumed he was being on-topic.

SE should make a special emote called /nickzealot. It can use the snowball motion and it pelts Nick Zealot with a rotten tomato, instantly, no matter where he is in the game world. Adding a debuff called "The Foul Stench of Nick Zealot" would be a nice touch too devs. Any one in his linkshells or that has recently partied with him gets it. Too harsh?

lol nice.

[Matsume]

So basically, follow the rules only when they're convenient to you? Nice. And how do you know that the OP is telling the truth anyway? He could've made the whole story up and photoshopped all of the pics just to get some free money.

To clarify: I do not think what Nick did was right, but it also wasn't illegal. Wrong =/= Illegal.

Let's imagine this in real life: I get real drunk one night and offer someone $100 for something obviously not worth $100. This person agrees and we trade. The next morning I realize what i did and go back to the guy and ask for a tradeback. He says no. Is he a total dick? Yes. Can I call the police and get him arrested? No.

Another example, closer to the old lady one: The old senial lady goes to the grocery store and gets a loaf of bread priced at $100 and other things priced at $50. She goes to the cashier and he says the total is $150 dollars. The old lady pays. The store did not do anything illegal because the bread was advertised at $100 and she gave her consent to buying it. Very wrong, but not illegal.

First of all, there are no rules. A judgement is given on every affair, one judgement does not fit all cases. this is why we have courts. So in no way am i wrong for judging differently on this case than the previous. And yes you are right, it could be shopped, but it doesn't look like it to me.

Secondly, who ever said anything about this being illegal?

Thirdly, most stores give refunds. Especially if its your neighborhood grocery store and you know the manager/owner.

Lastly, since it seems this conversation has yet again elevated to a degree of law I might add that in a court ruling judged by a jury the members of the jury would decide whether this scenario is legal or not. If we are the members of the jury and judge it wrong then technically speaking he would be legally oblidged to give it back.

And yeah, all of you who say it's not against the ToS you are right. Im only defending the morality of the matter.

[lackofwords]

It's not about the morality, the OP wanted SE to get his money back, which they are not responsible for. We all know that what Nick Zealot was wrong, but that isn't the topic. I guess I assumed he was being on-topic.

Yeah, we probably should move on to the bigger issue rather than morality and that guy being a jerk.

SE/GMs are ideally seen as the enforcers of the game. Is it wrong of the OP wanting to seek a higher order to handle the dispute?
It's ideally what Codemasters is doing, using the law to threaten that developer to bankruptcy if they didn't get their money back.

However, we already know in the back of our minds that SE/GMs won't be able to do anything about this. Seeing how they tend to not take any responsibility for anything that is not clearly defined in the service.

The bigger question is should SE have the power or actually take action to do something about this? However, no one really touched upon this. Instead a lot of people are just telling the OP to suck it up.

[Leonesaurus]

I'm gonna be honest here guys. When it comes to being a decent human being with some respect and basic moral values, you give that man his money back.

I respect any rules that must be followed whether it's a game or in real life, but when it comes to something disgusting like a guy knowingly holding your money against your own will is flat out disgusting and low. If you can support this player's side simply because he, out of a mere technicality, didn't break any rules but is deliberately ignoring him, attempting to publicly humiliate him, and knows he took all his hard earned money over a simple "admitted" mistake and apology, then there's seriously something wrong with you.

The OP never, not once, lost his temper over this matter. He remained honest, calm and reasonable over the entire conversation. The GM call was the only instance you could possibly use against him in the other side's defense, but it was only to get a guiding hand to help sort out the situation, like he admitted, not to punish him or have him banned. Fair enough.

I had something similar happen to me when I used to transfer items between my mules in vacant market stalls.

I had just logged off and right back on immediately next to my other character's retainer and found things missing during an inventory transfer (since the game lacks any mail sending function what so ever). And I used to do this regularly during intervals of my inventory filling up. This was done by many, many players, including my friends and LS members before the payment came into effect.

I saw someone right there walking in the opposite direction as soon as I signed back on, in which I could pretty much tell what had happened. It was pretty obvious when putting two and two together here, you could tell what went on. I stopped him with a /say and kindly got him to trade me my gear back right then and there so I could finish transferring it over to my other character. With a crappy system to work around, it's almost impossible to avoid a situation like this, but that was my excuse.

Suffice to say in the end, I ended up letting him keep the pair of leggings I didn't need, that he wanted, in which he had purchased for 1 gil. It didn't bother me, so I let him have it. We both came to a solution within 60 seconds or less with zero problems and went happily on our way.

The moral point of the story is, like the OP's is... Don't be an a$$hole and treat people like they're idiots. People make mistakes, hell SE made the biggest mistake with this game, and yet we still play it and help them fix it and try to enjoy it each day. We bust their balls about it just about every step of the way, but none the less, we still play there game and everyone, for the most part, is content with the direction it's heading.

People need to stop acting like douche bags and at the very, very least just try and show the man some sympathy and make him feel a little bit better. Or at least show that you can care. Even if he technically did nothing wrong when taking the money, it's the fact he knew he took that money, knew he got messages explaining the situation, received multiple apologies and still would not be a decent enough human being to make the guy feel better and give him his money back. Whether it's a game or real life, you're an a$$hole if you can't do any of those. There is no excuse for something like that. You're an a$$~hole.

But to be somewhat fair to everyone here and the rules in general, you really should learn from this experience and never let it happen again. Be careful with your items and your money and no problems will plague you down the road.

Sadly, SE, according to their own rules and regulations, cannot really do anything about it.
It's pretty much up to the players and their moral decisions. It's sad but true.

Sorry, but I have very low tolerance for people who mistreat others like that and especially refuse to be reasonable.

[Destain]

If he was a decent person u'd have your Gil back. Since it appears he is not, you just paid 14 mil for a very painful lesson. I feel bad for you, but if he see's his name on this forum your definitely not getting it back.

[Halfmask]

Hello to the Developers who may be so kind in helping me with this problem. I am Hobbes Graywyrd from the Fabul server. I am sorry for this is going to be a rather long post but I was placed in a dire situation where I had no options left and couldn't find a reasonable solution. So I found this might be appropriate to find a feasible solution.

...

Again Nick, if you are reading this, I am asking you to please do the right thing and return my money back please.

- Hobbes Graywryrd
Fabul Server

Well Hobbes, I guess men are corrupt by nature and the system is too feeble to keep them straight?

Kinda ironic.

[xenowind]

Ok, Hobbes. it is your mistake to put in the wrong amount for repair, right?
The thing is Nick is not that good in English, and he was actually thinking to return the whole amount of gil.
And then you told him you would contact GM if he didn't give the gil back. so Nick got tempered by the way you were talking.
Then all the friends and LS members were trying to convince him, after that Nick agreed.
Again, Hobbes, you said it was more than 14m, but Nick only received 13m+ from the repair as the log recorded.
Although it might be just a human error, but Nick got angry again by misunderstanding.
Of course we tried to convince him again.
So he agreed on giving 11m back to you, but you had to shout and apologize, and he /tell you that he would waited you for 5 mins.
Then you did not agree on the amount and 5 mins passed, he just logged off and went to rest.

Here's the story I know. Still think it's a moral issue? Just try the best to apologize to Nick if you still want your money back, or just be a man and learn the lesson..Good Luck.