Direct Hit; how much is "enough"?

[Reilyn]

To elaborate on the question, direct hit right now reminds me of an old problem with critical hit that dates back to world of warcraft years ago, where beyond a certain point; such as 33%, or maybe even 50%, getting additional critical hit rate didn't benefit the player as much because of how consistent you would critically hit.

FF14's current version of critical hit rate avoids this specific problem, ensuring it only gets stronger the more you get, and even benefits attacks guaranteed to crit already.

Direct hit on the other hand, might run into that 'softcap' problem eventually I described in that wow example. Apparently, with ~1700 DH on my RDM through deltascape savage + the occasional battlevoice from BRD, my DH rate was ~40% through fights.

I haven't taken any metric yet of how often I'm getting direct hits on my DRG with 2110 direct hit rate at this moment, but the core of my question is at what point should I not meld for direct hit, and just stick to crit/det melds to increase max possible damage instead?

[JohnnyDevo]

Now, I don't actually know WoW theorycraft, but I know enough about numbers systems to confidently say that the only real time you stop investing in the most powerful stat is when you hit diminishing returns. IE, if X points represents 5% chance at 0% and at 70%, it's the same DPS increase. But when X points represents only 2% at 70%, it's diminishing returns and you'd instead invest in another stat.

An extreme example of this concept was accuracy in this game before 4.0. Before the accuracy cap, accuracy was hands-down the best stat you could invest in on any class. But at the accuracy cap (when you reach a 100% hit rate), it's a useless stat and you want to invest in another stat.

To answer your specific question... Direct hit has no diminishing returns. Each point in direct hit represents the same increase in frequency of direct hits. This does mean, of course, the direct hit has a theoretical maximum at 100% direct hit rate, but that maximum is higher than we can hope to reach in stats this expansion.

In fact, FFXIV doesn't really have any dps stats with dimishing returns. They are either flat multipliers (Det, direct hit, tenacity) or they have something of an exponential scaling (crit, spell speed). And the way each class interacts with those stats changes on a class-by-class basis. The only real times you'll see a "get to X amount in a stat" is in specific examples where, for example, a warrior might want to hit enough skill speed to fit another fell cleave into his inner release.

As a result of this, most classes are listed as having stat priorities, based upon how their kits benefit from said stats. Red mage, for example, is Crit > DH > Det > SpS.

[EaMett]

To add to what has already been said, damage formulas seem to have interactions between stats so you don't, strictly speaking, really have stat priorities anymore.

Anyways, on the topic at hand you might find the following interesting : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=782468133

[wereotter]

Direct Hit does theoretically have a cap, but it is currently unobtainable. The math would put it somewhere around 4,300 DH at which point you would have a 100% direct hit rate considering every approximately 40 points over the DPS base gives you a 1% increased chance to perform a direct hit which is always a 25% increase over your base attack. So, Direct Hit, as a stat scales linearly. Critical Hit, however, scales exponentially and theoretically has no maximum. Critical hit, as a stat increases your chances of landing a critical hit, and the higher your critical hit stat, the larger the damage increase for the landed critical.

Now all that out of the way, I don't know the value, but there is a point at which the bonuses from critical hit will outweigh the bonuses gained from direct hit, most likely around the point that critical hit will give you more than a 25% average chance to perform a critical. As a monk right now, I have about 2000 crit, and am performing critical hits (based on auto attacks in recent recorded parses) at a rate around 20%. So for the time being I would estimate that for most DPS jobs it's still best to just add in as much direct hit as possible and supplement the rest of your stats with critical and skill speed to comfort.

[Neela]

So for the time being I would estimate that for most DPS jobs it's still best to just add in as much direct hit as possible and supplement the rest of your stats with critical and skill speed to comfort.

At least Mnks, Brds and (since 4.2) even smns should focus crit over dh meanwhile : /

[Claire_Pendragon]

Ive heard various people say that DH does have diminishing returns at 1,800 (last patch) though Ive never been given a source to back it up.

Since Ive got no real way to test it, Ill generally aim for 1.8k, and just go crit for the rest anyways, not too big a loss if im wrong.

[Maero]

I honestly would focus more on DH for Red Mage, DH>Crit>Det
But all of what was said above makes sense.
Your weapon you will want 2 DH and other pieces were you cannot add DH you may add Crit.
Now i am not however suggesting you add Dh on everything possible but it also does not really hurt.
I have 1800 DH atm with 1629 Crit and have seen crits up to 25K

[Kabooa]

There are two scenarios where DH has 'diminishing returns'

The more common sense is that DH after a point gives less % per point. (So for example, after 1600, it'd take 60 points for 1%, after 2000 it takes 100, etc).

I think it's more along the lines that DH is a linear stat, like Det and Tenacity. Each point of DH is worth exactly the same, technically, as the previous, but the amount it increases is less due to the linear nature.

Using simplistic numbers, if DH 0 is 100% damage efficiency, then DH 160 is 101% damage efficiency. You go up by 1%. DH 320 is 102% damage efficiency, you go up by 1% again, but from 101% to 102% is less of an increase (.99%).

[JohnnyDevo]

I think it's more along the lines that DH is a linear stat, like Det and Tenacity. Each point of DH is worth exactly the same, technically, as the previous, but the amount it increases is less due to the linear nature.

Using simplistic numbers, if DH 0 is 100% damage efficiency, then DH 160 is 101% damage efficiency. You go up by 1%. DH 320 is 102% damage efficiency, you go up by 1% again, but from 101% to 102% is less of an increase (.99%).

It's the same multiplicative increase from the base. So, taking theoretical numbers, if 0 is 100%, 160 is 101% and adds 100 dps, and 320 is 102% and adds 200 dps, then every 160 is worth the same flat amount; 1% or 100 dps. Diminishing returns would be if later on another 160 points resulted in anything less than that same 1% or 100 dps.

So it's definitely a linear stat. There's nothing diminishing about this, just a weird way of arranging the numbers.

[NovaBismarck]

I'm always curious about these sorts of things and since I'm horrid with math I have to rely on the intelligence of others and personal experience about what works. Since I'm most proficient with smn, but I'm still causal for the most part I'm not sure what I think will weigh heavily but I'll take a top tier smn as a sample. Super summoner is running approximately and rounded around 2K crit, 1800 direct, 1200 det.

I'm guessing crit starts becoming more important than DH at some point, the question is where is the tipping point. (Also that doesnt take in account det). Here is one article I found a while ago by Ver Haad. (Maybe someone who's got a better brain for calculation can give more than me).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1061959067