Please remove main scenario dungeon restriction when doing it undersized

[TheSaltySeagull03]

I am a noob who has yet to hit lvl 70 on any job and I agree that having unskippable cut scenes is dumb. I could honestly careless about the story and even if I did I have other sources that I can turn to so that I can watch the cut scenes. The decision to hold up a raid which is now a daily on the chance that you might have one or two people who are legit noobs and actually want to watch the cut scene is mind boggling to me. At the very least they could have coded it so that they are unskippable only if you have first timers in it.

[JaakRoot]

Who are, in the grander scheme of things, seem to be the minority absurdly, especially with how many people on the forums already said they wouldn't run it again on the roulette lmao.

Well, I don't see them complaining on the forum because they got what they want ? I know that some people create posts just to say thank you SE but I think it is more for complaints really.

[Vstarstruck]

Proof ? I got report of Queue getting longer and queue remaining the same at the same rate in this forum. We don't have stats so I don't think we can use this as argument. Maybe the change was easy to do sothey did it to please this ''minority'' ( again, stats ?) to keep the game somewhat full and relevant ? In my eyes, it is one of the most important thing to do for an FF game.

You are the one that wants to argue people having alts is the minority so I can ask you the same thing, where are you stats? I talk to lots of people, ran MSQ tons of times, the amount of people that really care about those CS, even new are tiny. Those that do care about the CS, more often then not, do not mouth off to the group about speed running and both view points accept each other, group A speed runs while the 8th watch the CS.

By your meaning, MSQ roulette or other roulette should have never existed in the first place. I would say then: if you want whatever you want, go get a PF like in old MMO where finding a group in front of dungeons was actually a real thing. I wouldn't mind personally as I miss the old time. But we all know were most of the MMO industry headed. It is statically good enough proof to understand SE decision to baby sit their players to follow the trend. SE did a compromise then by doing this change for newer player which is still in the right direction.

I do not know where this is coming from but ill say this, MSQ should not be road blocking every thing in the game, though this is off topic.

if really the queue is longer (again stats ?) because the majority does not queue anymore, the majority cannot consist of alts and noobs who wants to skip because they are part of the queue actually .... The majority would be the vets who think the time/reward ratio is not good enough for this roulette.

It isn't hence all the threads and posts here

The problem lies in the reward as it was designed for vets to make them do old contents to help sprouts. Cutscenes were designed for sprouts to enjoy, not vets so it should not be taken away from them to please duty roulette vets. If they really need to change something, change it on the reward for vets, not on the content for sprouts. If you start complaining on the CSs being too long, how about also complaining about roulette leveling lvl 16 being too long too. Let skip it directly to the boss so we can get instant experience .... I mean I already did Sastacha more than 10 times, me mashing 2 buttons to clear the dungeon is not better than watching 20 min CSs.

TL;DR : Please change the rewards for Vets, don't touch the contents for sprout.

I like you see propose a high enough reward to be forced to see something you know what happens and seen a 100 times or more. A lot of people just want to play the game. What should be done is change it back to pre 4.2 and simply have a pop up for those that never cleared it before, explaining how to use PF and it may be a good idea to run it a few friends if you want to take your time with the story.

To me you STILL are not understanding new people had ways of completing this while taking their time on it. I know one person on an alt who got 60 though PotD before clearing the level 50 quests because how long it takes to get though the 50 quests. So this person as a level 60 in ironworks gear ran the MSQ story things with a level 60 in current gear.. i 260.. i think.. and they duo it on their own watching the CS. you do not need to pug to clear the MSQ DFs, forcing 7 others to go at a set pace. This change is bad, setting a set speed for the CS is bad, half bake changes are bad.. for everyone, but a select minority that seem to think this is a good change when it is overall worse then pre 4.2 because they are unable to see the bigger picture.

Rewards has nothing to do with this, I am very frustrated at pleasing a select minority when there are more heavy impactful changes that people with disabilities need. This is my main point, I shown you the thread on it, and you ignored it completely. 4.2 MSQ changes is personally insulting to me. SE is basically saying players are unable to find their own groups so we need force a change on everyone, that is insulting to human intelligence.

You are ignoring the biggest point here, before 4.2 people could make their own groups and go at the speed they saw fit, now you can't. Change the game back to pre 4.2!

The duty finder's purpose is to let people find groups quickly that can't do so on their own, this force CS change defeats that spirit. If you care about cs so much, you make your own group, you only need ONE person level 60 + to do SO!!!!

I don't understand why it is such a huge deal over this. It is the FINALE of ARR

it is not, it was considered outdated and old before AAR(2.x) ended, prob when they released ironwroks, i120 gear.

I personally hate the change because I am against being forced to do something and against a blanket change (impacting inn/ premade/ undersize/min level challenge. I am also against the change because before people had options, it isn't hard to find one friend 60+ too duo with, now you have no other options. You give people a choice how do things, this change stripped that choice and will argue how much a bad idea till it is changed.)

[Vhailor]

My point still stand. It is not because sprouts need vets than it was designed for vets. Cutscenes are for new players and they should have the right to enjoy it. The previous system made it impossible for them to enjoy it live with boss battle. Roulettes Reward are designed for vets to do old contents to help sprout. Please change reward and not content.

Personally, I'm not sure it's possible for SE to offer sufficient rewards for this, barring something truly ludicrous. In the time it takes to run a single Roulette for MSQ, someone can easily run 2-3 Level 70 dungeons. Are they going to start offering a couple of hundred Creation Tomestones alongside 50+ Mendacity? That would probably do the trick, but oof.

I also would argue for a return to the old system (over this current edition). I disagree with your reasoning, or would argue my position, based on two points.

(1) This change impacts a tiny minority of the player base. The vast majority of players have already cleared the storyline at least once. Only brand-new subscribers, or the relative few who subscribed but abandoned XIV prior to the MSQ missions, will ever benefit from this. Was it really worth rocking the boat this badly? SE had to spend time to develop this change; they're now having to pay attention to nontrivial queue impacts - and even that might not even work. This is one of those points in time when a half-assed solution simply doesn't make sense. Had this been timed for the launch of a new expansion, sure, I could maybe see an argument (particularly if the measure was temporary). Right now, though? Either fix it the real way (make it a solo instance and/or relocate the cutscenes), or don't touch it.

(2) The previous system did not make it impossible for new players to enjoy the MSQ the way it was originally intended. It simply made it impossible to do so using the Duty Finder. Yet, every day, there are plenty of Linkshells advertising themselves to players of all skill levels. There's also the Party Finder. Players have always had options. All SE really had to do was warn people; something like "due to the nature of these missions, Duty Finder is not likely to provide the recommended experience." Granted, that would involve admitting fairly publicly that they f***ed the pooch for these missions, but it's not like it isn't obvious to 99% of the existing player base. Either way, though, people have always had options. To act as if they were compelled to join the content through the DF is wrong.

[Krotoan]

(1) This change impacts a tiny minority of the player base. The vast majority of players have already cleared the storyline at least once. Only brand-new subscribers, or the relative few who subscribed but abandoned XIV prior to the MSQ missions, will ever benefit from this. Was it really worth rocking the boat this badly? SE had to spend time to develop this change; they're now having to pay attention to nontrivial queue impacts - and even that might not even work. This is one of those points in time when a
half-assed solution simply doesn't make sense. Had this been timed for the launch of a new expansion, sure, I could maybe see an argument (particularly if the measure was temporary). Right now, though? Either fix it the real way (make it a solo instance and/or relocate the cutscenes), or don't touch it.

And will affect the same tiny amount of people making alts the same. Neither sides have numbers posted so I'm going to say neither can be confirmed. The rest only cared about the rewards and can leave it if they want, there are many options for them. Make a huge change or nothing isn't a great argument. Small adjustments cost them much less and can be tweaked incrementally. Large investments are a boon or bust situation.

(2) The previous system did not make it impossible for new players to enjoy the MSQ the way it was originally intended. It simply made it impossible to do so using the Duty Finder. Yet, every day, there are plenty of Linkshells advertising themselves to players of all skill levels. There's also the Party Finder. Players have always had options. All SE really had to do was warn people; something like "due to the nature of these missions, Duty Finder is not likely to provide the recommended experience." Granted, that would involve admitting fairly publicly that they f***ed the pooch for these missions, but it's not like it isn't obvious to 99% of the existing player base. Either way, though, people have always had options. To act as if they were compelled to join the content through the DF is wrong.

.. They were, as you have demonstrated with the lack of warning, compelled. Someone who loaded up the game and just played through it only had instructions to use the DF. Nobody is saying they didn't have options, just they had very little guidance toward those options.

[BillyKaplan]

.. They were, as you have demonstrated with the lack of warning, compelled. Someone who loaded up the game and just played through it only had instructions to use the DF. Nobody is saying they didn't have options, just they had very little guidance toward those options.

Which is seriously all on SE, especially when you realize how close to that level extreme trials are, and oh gosh, the Coils. No one in the game teaches you how to use the Party Finder even though it's a really useful tool for various situations. Sprouts knowing how to put up a pf and getting all those good souls who say they'll help first timers, as well as other first timers, would've been a huge boon to all involved and would've been a useful skill in their skillset besides.

[Krotoan]

Which is seriously all on SE, especially when you realize how close to that level extreme trials are, and oh gosh, the Coils. No one in the game teaches you how to use the Party Finder even though it's a really useful tool for various situations. Sprouts knowing how to put up a pf and getting all those good souls who say they'll help first timers, as well as other first timers, would've been a huge boon to all involved and would've been a useful skill in their skillset besides.

No arguments there. PF is a very useful tool with very little introduction.

[Felis]

Wait so even if you do it undersized the cutscenes will be forced to play? I thought that was only for the roulette itself. Yikes!

It is directly for the 2 dungeons, not for the MSQ roulette.
And because undersize mode only remove the size requirement, without changing the dungeon, it will still force the players to watch the CS.

[JaakRoot]

snip

Then I agree with you, no stats, no further discussion. SE chose this way, I believe they had a reason because they have the stats. ''a lot'', ''more than often'', ''this forum'' from your personal experience don't really qualify as stats. If SE thinks it starts to get big number overall, then SE, please find a better solution.

About PF solution, I did not know about how to use PF until this week as the game push you to duty finder now. I am lvl 57. But, if the new players cannot find a group in PF, then what ? ( as I mentioned, players need to be baby sit nowadays sadly), Use MSQ roulette for a fast clear and do it again later ?

I can't imagine the alert ...: Due to fewer people for old contents as the game progress, our system created for you to go on with your quest might result in the cutscenes and bosses being skipped. Please use the party finder if you want to enjoy the full story. If you can't find any party due to the content being old, please do it with duty finder and come back later when you are ilvl 260 and experience like a Echo flashback memory ! ( look like the bard quest ultima trial actually ...)

It is plainly admitting they did a bad system lol. As I said in the other thread and the topic of this thread, I agree with forced CSs being dumb in PF and I agree totally by removing it. Look like SE cannot do it or don't want to do it for whatever reason. I would choose force CSs over pre-4.2 system even with the PF problem.

About the disabilities need, it is out of topic and that's why I did not talk about it. Let not mix everything together.

I think the whole roulette concept and duty finder is insulting to human intelligence and social capability. Same with another major MMO i would not dare to speak here or I will get banned .

[KaivaC]

snip

I believe a couple people addressed this already, but let me echo what they're saying as well: it's one thing for them to implement the unskippable cutscenes in the roulettes - that was already a bad decision, but what's done is done. It is beyond dumb to apply those same restrictions through an undersized party or in the Party Finder. You do know that undersized means that you can run these dungeons solo at whatever level above 50, right? That's what the discussion is about, not the current iteration of the MSQ dungeons that you normally queue up for.

Key words here are Undersized and Party Finder. The restrictions shouldn't extend to those.