[Concept] New Red Mage Resource – Astral Shards & Umbral Shards

[Blueyes]

I normally avoid theorycrafting about how jobs could be adjusted by the development team as it can result in getting my hopes up for something that would most likely never see the light of day. However, an idea came to me pertaining to Red Mage. Having put some thought into it, I figured it was worth sharing.

[Level 68 Trait] Umbral Affinity – Casting Verthunder grants 1 Umbral Shard.
[Level 70 Trait] Astral Affinity – Casting Veraero grants 1 Astral Shard.

• Up to 5 Umbral Shards and 5 Astral Shards can be stored.

Verflare Adjustments – 5 second cast time. Require 3 Umbral Shards, consumed on use.
Verholy Adjustments – 5 second cast time. Require 3 Astral Shards, consumed on use.

• Verflare and Verholy can be cast at any time provided that requirements are met.

[Level 50 Weaponskill] Umbral Redoublement – Increasing the potency of the next Verthunder (or Verflare) by X%. (Grants 3 Umbral Shards.)
[Level 50 Weaponskill] Astral Redoublement – Increasing the potency of the next Veraero (or Verholy) by X%. (Grants 3 Astral Shards.)

• Words within ( ) are to be included once the traits "Umbral Affinity" and "Astral Affinity" have been acquired.
• Umbral Redoublement and Astral Redoublement take the place of Enchanted Redoublement.

This will require adjustments to damage numbers to ensure balance, but I'm not overly concerned about those details. This is more about identifying fun and engaging adjustments that don't require a complete rework of how Red Mage operates. Also, I think this may appear complicated on paper, but the mechanics should be easy to understand in practice. (Certain actions grant shards. Spend shards by casting strong magic.)

Current Red Mage Concerns

Truthfully, my biggest gripe with Red Mage is its simplicity. Now simplicity isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lack of engaging growth may be a better way to pinpoint my concern. For example, Samurai is very straight-forward at level 50. It basically rotates each combo and utilizes Meikyo Shisui when relevant. By level 60, the Kenki Gauge is introduced, adding a layer of depth, but kept simple with limited options. By level 70, those options expand, resulting in a job with a surprising amount of depth. By contrast, Red Mage is straight-forward at level 50 and... still is at level 70. Very little actually changes in the way the job operates.

There is one other aspect about Red Mage that bothers me, though it isn't an issue exclusive to that job. There's a concept I like which I refer to as "stored power" with Summoner being a great example of what I mean. When Summoner uses Aetherflow, the job gains access to powerful abilities like Fester. However, those abilities don't need to be used immediately. There is a window of opportunity to use those abilities which allows for strategic planning, such as waiting for a moment when burst damage is crucial. By contrast, Red Mage has little to no opportunity to strategically execute spells or abilities without outright delaying their use.

In-Depth Explanation of Concept

To address both of these concerns, I present a new concept that incorporates two new elements that are closely related: Umbral Shards and Astral Shards. The goal was to introduce a new layer of strategic depth without being overly convoluted. Shard accumulation is limited to Verthunder and Veraero to ensure that shards aren't acquired too rapidly. Furthermore, Verflare and Verholy would be given a 5 second cast time which means, outside of Swiftcast, their use would typically take the place of a Verthunder or Veraero which would further slow down shard accumulation. Aside from cutting corners with certain actions (Swiftcast, Redoublement, or a Vercure during downtime) it would take six global cooldowns to acquire the minimum number of shards, followed by two more to execute a Dualcast Verflare or Verholy.

Allowing for up to five Umbral Shards and five Astral Shards to be stored was put in place to provide that window of opportunity for strategically-timed application. Verflare and Verholy don't need to be cast immediately because there's still room to acquire more shards without them going to waste. In addition, allowing for five shards of each type provides a "safety net" when the Redoublement combo is used. To ensure that Verflare or Verholy can still be cast after the completion of a Redoublement combo, three shards of either type are granted. Without allowing for five shards of each type to be stored, there will surely be circumstances where shards are wasted due to Redoublement providing an excess amount.

Normally, after executing Redoublement, the player is given the freedom to cast either Verflare or Verholy. However, with the introduction of shards as a cost requirement, there would need to be a way to grant either shard type to preserve that freedom of choice. Technically, that could be resolved by simply allowing the next Verflare or Verholy to be cast without consuming shards, but I personally would prefer an approach that incorporates a higher degree of shard management. This is the only case where new actions would be introduced in the form of two weaponskills that branch from Zwerchhau: Umbral Redoublement and Astral Redoublement. Essentially, those weaponskills would work the same as Enchanted Redoublement, but grant three shards of its respective type.

The introduction of two new elements, Umbral Shards and Astral Sharps, also presents an avenue for further development beyond level 70. For example, it could be made possible to acquire and consume shards through the use of new AoE magic.

Conclusion

I don't actually expect this to be implemented, but my hope is that SE will take notice of the desire to see Red Mage reach a greater degree of depth at higher levels. I will also acknowledge that, although not overly convoluted, the amount of additional depth achieved through this suggestion may be minimal when weighed against the introduction of an entirely new resource management system. However, a new resource to manage could hold greater value in the long run.

[Sylvain]

Honestly, I do not think RDM needs a new mechanic at lv 70 (and I have a hard time picturing why you think they'd ever do such a change. Your proposition sounds more like 5.0 new spells for the next expansion). I'm not even sure it makes much of a difference and regarding it's current rotation, it would just make it remotely more engaging, perhaps.


I also don't see why you remove the VerHoly/VerFlare from the melee combo, it's actually fun to execute and add a touch of finishing move to the whole combo. VerHoly/Flare, I assume, is meant to be finisher moves, something you built up for. (Like demi bahamut in a way or Foul).

I really do not see your proposition as something the RDM would benefit from, it just feels like another system where you keep your ressource to unload at a specific time. A bit like PLD with Requiescat and Holy Spirit, probably the most boring addition to any job in the game. Boring and it looks stupid (there you go x5 spam of White Flowers)


Back to the topic,
My main issue isn't the simplicity itself. A simple rotation doesn't mean it has to be easy to execute. In fact most other MMO with faster GCD have actually very simple rotation, the difficulty comes from making very quick decision. In fact, RDM is much more technical than any given job in ARR and some from HW so on this regard it's not that bad

My biggest problem from RDM rotation is that we have a LOT of time to think.
You do A-coup then AoE/Thunder and then you have a whooping 2.4sec to think about your next move. And this is imo the core issue. You have too much time to think about your next move on a job that requires reactiveness on proc. It's not like BLM who needs to plan ahead his whole set-in-stone rotation, RDM is based on proc and has to adapt around that, fine, but they are also given a lot of time to react to which spell to do next.

Imo, until 5.0 there's one change that would make RDM much more pleasant to play:

Reducing the recast time by 1-1.5 sec aftera VerAero/VerThunder. (Potency and such have to be adapted)

Doing this would severely reduce the time you have to reposition and think about your next action would make the job gameplay flow better. (I do not deny it would be a sever nerf on RDM ability to move around).

For instance, think of your melee combo once you've charged, one of the fun part of this is that it's quick. You charge in, unload with a fast recast timer and leap out with a last boom. If they'd remove the reducedcast time the whole melee combo would feel slugish and out of sync.

Finally, I think the core concept of the RDM is perfectly fine as it is and I do not want SE to change any of the current skills. I'd rather have an entirely new set of mechanics at 80 than having (especially those 2 spells) changed. They are fine as it is.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

All I see here is an over-complication of Red Mage....of what it already has...with some buffs for damage.

I'll give you points for well thought out and well planned...but I don't see this happening.

The problem with Red Mages that I see? Is cockiness - too eager to get in the thick of it and get in over their heads....or the other extreme...laziness.
Red Mage is seriously OP as a DPS....broken to me in some aspects. If I was going to suggest a change?
Make the White/Black Mana Gauge actually mean something. Cause right now - it just isn't that significant enough short of enchanting your melee abilities and unlocking Verholy/flare.

not asking for it to be complicated....I'm suggesting that make it more intrigal to what you do as a red mage. Too easy to "meh" it.

[Nobuyoki]

Well, I don't see where RDM is an OP DPS. Its damage is one of the worst, would it be its personal or its raid DPS. The thing that makes you think it is OP is probably its raise/heal abilities, that is something not every RDM wants, or something that should not gut its dmg this much.

Also, as the previous dudes said, I think that it will not change your rotation at all, apart from the mini verflare/holy. And these changes are a bit "too much" to have them midpatch. even though you could argue that they changed a bit WAR last patch, it was still no new skills or mechanics.

Finally, I think I can agree on pretty much all Sylvain said : the gameplay of RDM should feel smooth, and the melee combo+finisher is pretty rewarding since you unload quite a burst after having taken some time to build it. While I would gladly have a new set of RDM for next expac, I would also like to have new ways to spend/manage the mana gauge. I don't know what, but since this gauge is the core of RDM's gameplay (as much as Enochian is core to BLM), it seems pretty logic for me to have skills that plays on it.

[Reynhart]

Personally, the only thing I would change from Red Mage right now is adding some effects to the crystal color on the mana gauge.

For example :
- When the crystal is black, all spells give back some MP
- When the crystal is white, VerCure potency is enhanced

[Sylvain]

Personally, the only thing I would change from Red Mage right now is adding some effects to the crystal color on the mana gauge.

For example :
- When the crystal is black, all spells give back some MP
- When the crystal is white, VerCure potency is enhanced

I don't want to be rude but beside situation where you are spamming rez, why would you want more mana and when would u need more heal. Even if it had 1000 potency RDM wouldn't do it (heck they don't even heal themselves when one healer is dead and they're at 5%)

[Dualgunner]

Doing this would severely reduce the time you have to reposition and think about your next action would make the job gameplay flow better. (I do not deny it would be a sever nerf on RDM ability to move around).

For instance, think of your melee combo once you've charged, one of the fun part of this is that it's quick. You charge in, unload with a fast recast timer and leap out with a last boom. If they'd remove the reducedcast time the whole melee combo would feel slugish and out of sync.

Finally, I think the core concept of the RDM is perfectly fine as it is and I do not want SE to change any of the current skills. I'd rather have an entirely new set of mechanics at 80 than having (especially those 2 spells) changed. They are fine as it is.

This would make weaving oGCDs much harder I feel. Something any MCH, NIN, or MNK could tell you right off is a fast GCD leads to a lot of clipping when trying to weave anything--I bring up MCH because, with bad ping under rapid fire, your GCDs can clip themselves.

To relate directly back to the topic, Astral and Umbral Shards remind me too much of AF and UI, which are strict BLM traits. Part of the reason RDM's black magic is inherently weaker is because we cast the spells straight off, without tapping into an elemental alignment. It would be interesting if unbalancing became a mechanic in and of itself--ie, when the crystal goes black, fire and thunder are increased in strength by a certain potency? Or perhaps, when the crystal goes black, stone and aero cast with that 1.5s recast you were talking about, albeit at a tinier potency, something one can intentionally plan around and imbalance when heavy movement isn't needed?

[Sylvain]

@ dual gunner. It would create clipping and as I said, it would be a nerf dps wise (unless they'd consider the clipping and give RDM new tools to dps while moving)

The suggestion is purely and only adressing RDM flows of spells. Like how the game play would feel.

Due to dualcast I've always felt RDM was opposed to BLM on the sens that BLM is a canon and RDM a gattling gun. Even the animation feel this way, RDM has quick movement and is almost dancing (especially when doing aoe) whereas when casting any rankIV spells or foul, it looks like your casting something extremely unstable ans it's about to blow in your face. (Ofc this is purely personal)

As a side note,
It'd be nice if theyd fix the whole clipping issue by simply allowing you to start the next cast while doing the animation.

Regarding a mechanic working around unbalancing would go against the core idea but it is definitely something that could be fun if we'll executed. Possible unbalancing black and white alternatively to fall back on the core idea

[Dualgunner]

Perhaps we could take a page from Astro with this idea:
Unbalanced to black--spells are stronger but slower (heavy burst phases)
Unbalanced to white--spells are weaker but faster (heavy movement phases)

One of my other annoyances with the job is its real burst, the melee and finisher, don't line up well with trick windows (or, the minute-by-minute burst phases a lot of jobs follow). As I understand BLM doesn't either. It would be nice if we had something rewarding we could do to delay our buildup for that, a la Cooldown from MCH.

I agree completely that clipping is an issue that needs to be fixed sooner rather than later, for all jobs.

[Sylvain]

Since it relies on proc, I don't think it's possible to balance this around a burst phase unless they introduce a new mechanic.

Personally, out of many new spells I thought would be good to have, I would like to have a super verholy/flare that you can only do when you've done both.
For instance
New trait :80 beyond balance : casting verflare grants umbral attunement (crystal contour glow dark purple), casting very holy grants Astral attunement (white green glow. When under the effect of both, the contour glow red with sparkles of purple and white.
Krystal Lung (stupid name I know) level 80
After the melee combo, you can unleash a new powerful finisher that looks like your blade becomes imbued with crystal power. You then, elegantly, pierce through your foe.
Think a bit of what Alisay did during the battle against the warriors if darkness!

It would work a bit like Foul. Doesn't change much but is always fun to execute.