Housing Suggestions

[Mahrze]

Because it's a little more complicated than the black and white answer you seek, and you care not for the nuance, so I'm not going to waste my time talking to someone that doesn't want to listen.

Nuance? Nah, mate. You want a house reset with very limiting rules.

Yeah, because players that have more than one personal house per server per account are 100% legit... Don't try to take the moral high ground when you're standing in the morass of illgotten gains.

Citation needed.

By the current restrictions, SE redefined them to be thieves - for they have resources they should not have, and resources another could use. If that's not the definition of thievery, I don't know what is.

To be accused of theft, someone has to have lost something that belonged to them. Said resource had no owner. SE taking the plots they bought in a retroactive manner would fall into more of a term for thievery than your rationale.

Or if SE would have had the stones to enforce their restrictions upon the player-base and not grandfather anyone in, we wouldn't have this discussion. SE doesn't allow any newer player to have more than one personal house per account per server, so why should they grandfather in the older owners? SE needs to have the stones to force the older owners to release their excess houses. If a newer player can't get it, they shouldn't have it either.

Instead of making entitled statements you should point to the actual issue. Houses are not released faster than they think they are. Plenty of demolition suspensions have happened in game which severely impede the housing rotation they expect. Either deploy housing wards faster or the demolition schedule should continue, regardless of outside affairs. I vote for the former, more houses, more often.

[Sothis]

Yeah, because players that have more than one personal house per server per account are 100% legit...

Don't try to take the moral high ground when you're standing in the morass of illgotten gains.

I'm talking about your incredibly sweeping "take every personal large" statement. Spoiler: I have a single personal home, on a single character, on a single account, which I bought as an open lot. There is nothing ill-gotten about any of it. There is literally no reason for me to be penalized, but you're calling for it anyway because, uh, feelings I guess?

[Almagnus1]

Honest to God question here. I have multiple characters on one server (on many servers actually, but lets just stick to my main server for this). My multiple characters are spread across 3 FCs, all of which now have their own house. Which two FCs should lose their house since I'm a member, or should people like me who are members of multiple FCs be forced to pick just 1 FC to be part of? Limiting to only 1 FC house per account per server is fine for not being able to purchase anymore, however, if you're wanting to enforce the rule completely, not just the purchasing aspect, you're opening up a whole new can of worms that I'm pretty sure you haven't considered.

Do the FC houses by the FC's leader's account.

A few years ago, there was a glitch where people could add their alts to their friends list. Those people can send themselves mail and add themselves as tenants at their homes. It was not something ever ntended as part of the design of the game, and it definitely is something new players cannot do. Should SE go back and remove this from the old players?

Yes, SE should do a friend's list sweep and remove them. IMO housing should be used to transfer things between alts.... not the mail system.

Should anything and everything that has ever been grandfathered in be removed and "fixed"?

Unless we're talking about stuff that's no longer in the game, yes. All game functionality should be consistent among all players.

I really don't understand why you are filled with so much hatred towards anything being grandfathered in.

Because this board has assumed me to be hateful because some of the people that are part of the problem are fighting against me, and they can't admit they're the issue.

I read a great example in the forums somewhere (I may try to find it later to add the quote), but it basically said in real life if you build a house, you have to build it to the codes and laws as they are right then. If your city/ town/ county/ state/ country/ whoever changes the codes which housing has to be built to, you don't have to rebuild/ fix your house to meet those new codes even though any new houses have to meet those codes. If you try to upgrade your old home, then you have to meet the new codes, but just because the laws (rules) changed, doesn't mean that they should be retro-active and everyone in the town should have to rebuild everything just to meet the new coding. That's how things get grandfathered in, and it's almost always a better system for everyone.

This isn't RL, so that's not applicable. We're talking about bits on a server interpreted by the server code, not houses.

Instead of making entitled statements you should point to the actual issue. Houses are not released faster than they think they are. Plenty of demolition suspensions have happened in game which severely impede the housing rotation they expect. Either deploy housing wards faster or the demolition schedule should continue, regardless of outside affairs. I vote for the former, more houses, more often.

You mean the real problem where the pre-4.3 housing wards are used so inefficiently that we'll need at least another 5 wards to be at the capacity we should have because SE doesn't have the balls to force housing releases?

I'm talking about your incredibly sweeping "take every personal large" statement. Spoiler: I have a single personal home, on a single character, on a single account, which I bought as an open lot. There is nothing ill-gotten about any of it. There is literally no reason for me to be penalized, but you're calling for it anyway because, uh, feelings I guess?

That large house should never have been allowed to be used as a personal house. It's what Lord of the Rings Online did with their housing system, and none of the issues we have in FFXIV were ever present there. The model works, and it should be brought over here.

[Amantisa]

snip
This isn't RL, so that's not applicable. We're talking about bits on a server interpreted by the server code, not houses.
snip

I would like to add to this little part here!
If we went to compare to RL anyway, then we would still have issues as the grandfathering doesn't happen everywhere. Sometimes as the rules change you are forced to change as well within some time governments will give you. Doesn't matter if you had the same house/law for a hundred years, once it changes, it changes for all.

More than talking about server codes, we are talking about a private company. And if they ever decide to not grandfather people who have 60 houses and give them a deadline to choose one and demolish the rest, they can do as they please. Yes, we are the customers, but still, their company, their rules. If they find out that not grandfathering will bring a better view to them, it have some probability of happening. Otherwise, there's not much to fear about

[MizArai]

Do the FC houses by the FC's leader's account.

If the FC leader is inactive for 35 days, the FC leadership gets passed on to another person. Because of this, every person in the FC has the potential to inherit the FC and the FC house. That's why the rule exists the way it does currently. By only using the leader's account, you are creating problems down the line with your refusal to let anyone be grandfathered into anything.

Yes, SE should do a friend's list sweep and remove them. IMO housing should be used to transfer things between alts.... not the mail system.

The only items you can transfer via housing are housing items. How in the world do you want people to transfer stuff between alts via housing? Also, alts cannot access anything in the house of another character on the same account unless they are on the other character's friends list and have been added as a tenant at the house. So, by removing them from the friends list, you are removing whatever access they had to transfer things via housing.

Unless we're talking about stuff that's no longer in the game, yes. All game functionality should be consistent among all players.

There have been quite a few times where they fixed UI glitches and such that allowed for things like furniture to be placed in certain areas that were not intended. Sometimes players can find a new way to glitch items, sometimes they cannot. Good luck writing code to figure out which items are placed in ways where they could still be glitched there and which items are not. Talk about a waste of resources.

This isn't RL, so that's not applicable. We're talking about bits on a server interpreted by the server code, not houses.

Your "bits on a server" are houses though. Using examples from real life can help explain why things should be grandfathered in, you know besides the obvious one of what a waste of resources it would be to write code for a one time event.

You mean the real problem where the pre-4.3 housing wards are used so inefficiently that we'll need at least another 5 wards to be at the capacity we should have because SE doesn't have the balls to force housing releases?

We currently have 18 wards for a total of 4320 houses per server. Balmung still has over 13k active players. In order to give everyone that wants a house on Balmung, they would probably need to have about 60+ wards in the game. Most of the large servers probably need about 50 or so wards. With the smallest servers probably needing probably about 30 wards. However, if they actually do allow for small, medium, and large apartments (especially if people can have access to gardening either in their apartment or elsewhere in the game), then those numbers would probably go down a lot (since there are 180 apartments per ward). By most pre-4.2 estimates, forcing a release of all the extra homes players own would give about 100-200 houses per server. When there are currently enough houses for not even 1/3 of a server to have a house, putting 100-200 houses back on the market is barely a drop in the bucket. It's not a solution. It's giving into an angry mob and not helping the situation at all.

That large house should never have been allowed to be used as a personal house. It's what Lord of the Rings Online did with their housing system, and none of the issues we have in FFXIV were ever present there. The model works, and it should be brought over here.

There are plenty of games with tons of different housing models that work. Many allow players to buy whatever size house they can afford. And just because something worked well in one game does not mean it will work well in another game. Especially if it's a drastic change from how the game is currently (and taking away all personal large houses would be a drastic change).

[hynaku]

Add workshops to private housing since can have 5 others with full access to your private house and Since alts can't own a fc house anymore. That way your friends can help with crafting air ships, subs, and other housing items.

[Fynlar]

Because it's a little more complicated than the black and white answer you seek, and you care not for the nuance, so I'm not going to waste my time talking to someone that doesn't want to listen.

Read: I'm totally a hypocrite but can't admit it, so I'm going to write it off as everyone else being too closed-minded to understand. That'll show em!

ok bro.

Yeah, because players that have more than one personal house per server per account are 100% legit...

There was never any rule against it when they got them, so yep, it is 100% legit. Glad to see you agree.

[Alien_Gamer]

Or instead of arguing for half measures that hurt part of the community, people could instead argue for SE to fix housing by either releasing enough wards or implementing instance housing. That is the ONLY solution where someone doesn't get hurt.

[Almagnus1]

4320 houses of now plus 1200 new houses would only be amazing on low pop servers, barely a breather on mid pop and large pop would be left unsatisfied.

Which is why SE needs to retroactively force housing release.

If the FC leader is inactive for 35 days, the FC leadership gets passed on to another person. Because of this, every person in the FC has the potential to inherit the FC and the FC house. That's why the rule exists the way it does currently. By only using the leader's account, you are creating problems down the line with your refusal to let anyone be grandfathered into anything.

If the FC leader is gone for 35 days, you've got bigger FC issues at hand than the FC house. It's likely that that FC is already dead.

If SE really wants to go with that restriction, that's on them. IMO, it's better to tie it to the FC, and force the FC to meet minimum ownership requires and then release the house if they fail to meet those requirements.

The only items you can transfer via housing are housing items. How in the world do you want people to transfer stuff between alts via housing? Also, alts cannot access anything in the house of another character on the same account unless they are on the other character's friends list and have been added as a tenant at the house. So, by removing them from the friends list, you are removing whatever access they had to transfer things via housing.

Right, was thinking FC chest >.>

Better question is why you really need alts in FFXIV in the first place.

There have been quite a few times where they fixed UI glitches and such that allowed for things like furniture to be placed in certain areas that were not intended. Sometimes players can find a new way to glitch items, sometimes they cannot. Good luck writing code to figure out which items are placed in ways where they could still be glitched there and which items are not. Talk about a waste of resources.

I'm referring to grandfathering in things that actually matter, not these frivolities you seem fixated on.

We currently have 18 wards for a total of 4320 houses per server. Balmung still has over 13k active players. In order to give everyone that wants a house on Balmung, they would probably need to have about 60+ wards in the game. Most of the large servers probably need about 50 or so wards. With the smallest servers probably needing probably about 30 wards. However, if they actually do allow for small, medium, and large apartments (especially if people can have access to gardening either in their apartment or elsewhere in the game), then those numbers would probably go down a lot (since there are 180 apartments per ward). By most pre-4.2 estimates, forcing a release of all the extra homes players own would give about 100-200 houses per server. When there are currently enough houses for not even 1/3 of a server to have a house, putting 100-200 houses back on the market is barely a drop in the bucket. It's not a solution. It's giving into an angry mob and not helping the situation at all.

I think you're underestimating how many people own multiple houses. Either way, that's still 2-3 wards per servers that would help a lot.

Real issue is that FFXIV is at about half the wards it needs on the high pop servers, and with the existing houses not being well utilized, someone is going to get screwed regardless what happens, and I'd rather see greedy thieves like the Mateus couple get the shaft than all the other people that continue to get frustrated because they can't get a house or move to Shirogane (because SE stupidly hyped that up and didn't deliver enough capacity to satisfy the players).

Or instead of arguing for half measures that hurt part of the community, people could instead argue for SE to fix housing by either releasing enough wards or implementing instance housing. That is the ONLY solution where someone doesn't get hurt.

SE has stated part of the issue is server side resources, and instanced housing is only going to aggravate that issue. I'm suspecting that's why SE is taking so long to add more wards.