Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

[Alleo]

Why do threads often turn so toxic when PVP is mentioned? Do we truly need to attack the people themselves even if they have "unpopluar" opinions? Better use all this bait for fishing but not for discussion.

Also maybe unpopular opinion:

- If you have a reward for top 100 then make it so that people constantly have to fight in PVP (rank decay) to keep their place instead of doing the matches at the start and then not getting into any fights at all to keep it. This way you will have true rankings..also make sure that there are no cheaters in those ranks.

[kikix12]

The problem with that design, as has been previously said in the PvP forums, is that if any and all rewards were made available after the fact, then why compete for them in the first place?

What a load of bull. People compete for the sake of competition left and right. They compete for the most stupid reason. For who finishes the dungeon 10 seconds faster. For who's going to deal 100 damage more on average. In real life, they compete for who will do a more stupid thing, like eating a spoon of cinnamon. And here we are, having a person saying that they wouldn't compete for something that they cannot get in any other way, just because it can be gotten later as well?! What nonsense.

If I can get Season 3's mount via tokens later, why bother competing to win it in Season 3? Why not just pull bare minimum and get it later in Season 7 or 8?

Because if you're good enough you can have it 4-5 seasons earlier?! And if you put in that effort, instead of getting ONE reward in season 7-8, you can have that and 4-5 more from seasons 4-8?!

It's clear that you don't care about these arguments, simply because you want something that cannot be obtained by others. Ironically, this is far closer to what 'entitled' means than whatever context I saw it used here. "I PvP here and now, so I deserve something that no one else will be able to get ever again.".

If an Olympic medalist doesn't win a medal during those games, in that year, in that place, even if they come back for the next games, should they get that last games' medal?

Seriously, stop ignoring parts of my posts that are inconvenient for you. I literally said that I have no issue with a digital trophy and/or a digital medal. And I suggested to add to that some form of currency instead of items that should never have been made exclusive. You even responded to that previously. Yay, yay, selective memory loss go!

There's barely any exclusive anything in this game because of that mindset. Having something as a limited time reward for a competition entirely makes sense. Otherwise, why bother?

For the same reason people bother with Savage/Extreme/Raids?! And there shouldn't be anything exclusive, so yeah, 'barely' is still too much. You're trying to make yourself into a poor victim of the bad developers that don't make PvP rewarding enough, but there's nothing in PvE that is exclusive (other than memory of ruined towns like Idyllshire for those that played back then, but that's not even an item and you can look for screenshots/videos of that).
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to promoting PvP and what not. I am against the concept of exclusives, and I am the same in respect to any exclusive. If they ever made a boss that can be killed only X amount of times before disappearing forever and drop items that will never be gotten anywhere else again, I'd be as much against it as I am against the Feast rewards.

Of course, you will once again selectively pick whatever you think will be usable for your 'arguments', 'forgetting' about things you said before and what not. Oh, well.

[Zojha]

Why do threads often turn so toxic when PVP is mentioned?

Such is the nature of Poster vs Poster, aka forum PvP.

There are no healers to ease a burn here, tho'.

[Cidel]

Such is the nature of Poster vs Poster, aka forum PvP.

There are no healers to ease a burn here, tho'.

If there was, somebody probably would've complained how overpowered they are by now.

[Dualgunner]

Sam Riegel is a great voice actor and he would have been a damn fine Alphinaud if he didn't have to do that faux British stuff. I wish they kept him on staff.

[Zojha]

If there was, somebody probably would've complained how overpowered they are by now.

Depends on the measure of their reach, I wager.

Easing a burn from a lost argument? Nah, likely not - You've already won that argument, that only gives the loser some consolation.
Deleting threads and arguments on the forums at a rate that you need to organize a shitstorm on reddit to allow arguments to last a while in order to prevent people from getting burnt in the first place?
I could see that becoming a point of complaint, people often get angry when devs take down heated threads for clean-up purposes. Deleting arguments in general doesn't lend itself to a good debate.

[Shurrikhan]

If there was, somebody probably would've complained how overpowered they are by now.

Mediators have too much throughput and have ruined foruming.

[Theodric]

Why do threads often turn so toxic when PVP is mentioned? Do we truly need to attack the people themselves even if they have "unpopluar" opinions? Better use all this bait for fishing but not for discussion.

Garleans and PvP. The two most controversial topics on the FFXIV forum?

I like both.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Of course, you will once again selectively pick whatever you think will be usable for your 'arguments', 'forgetting' about things you said before and what not. Oh, well.

Alright, let's do this point by point. I've got nothing but time.

What a load of bull. People compete for the sake of competition left and right. They compete for the most stupid reason. For who finishes the dungeon 10 seconds faster. For who's going to deal 100 damage more on average. In real life, they compete for who will do a more stupid thing, like eating a spoon of cinnamon. And here we are, having a person saying that they wouldn't compete for something that they cannot get in any other way, just because it can be gotten later as well?! What nonsense.

Oh NOW suddenly people are competitive and like to compete in this game? Cause I seem to recall many, MANY arguments in which I was told "this isn't a competitive game". Yes, I know people compete, hell, I do it and continue to do it because I love it, not because of the prizes. Still, let's not play at idealism here: if you were offered a prize for reaching the top of a mountain, and your options were to climb or walk a trail, what would you do? What do you think most people would do? Sure, some might climb because they love climbing. But people are more likely to take the path of least resistance.

Because if you're good enough you can have it 4-5 seasons earlier?! And if you put in that effort, instead of getting ONE reward in season 7-8, you can have that and 4-5 more from seasons 4-8?!

It's clear that you don't care about these arguments, simply because you want something that cannot be obtained by others. Ironically, this is far closer to what 'entitled' means than whatever context I saw it used here. "I PvP here and now, so I deserve something that no one else will be able to get ever again.".

This is actually something PvPers held as a concern with a token system. If you're good enough to compete and win the prize that season, great! If you want to take your time and gather up tokens, then you can exchange them for either an old reward, or the new. But no double dipping.

And guess what? I've competed in all seasons except Season 4 (for protesting the chat ban), and never won any of the top 100 prizes for any season. And I'm perfectly fine with that. Whether I just didn't have what it took to place like seasons 1 and 2, or whether I just got bored or was upset by changes made (seasons 3-5), or purposefully stopped at a certain point to receive a specific award (season 6), I accepted the outcome. You're trying to argue a point of fairness for people that weren't even there or interested in it before a given point to be allowed to have a reward, and I'm not sorry, but that's absurd. And let me shut down your mistaken impression right here and now that I want or deserve anything that no one else will ever be able to get. Anything I wanted and made enough effort for in this game, I've gotten. Anything missed before I was here is of no concern to me.

Seriously, stop ignoring parts of my posts that are inconvenient for you. I literally said that I have no issue with a digital trophy and/or a digital medal. And I suggested to add to that some form of currency instead of items that should never have been made exclusive. You even responded to that previously. Yay, yay, selective memory loss go!

They added the Wolf Collars currency and Hellhound weapons. Maybe they'll add more to that (nothing reward wise has been announced for season 7 yet). Still, the general consensus among regulars in the Feast - top 100 or not - is that simply making rewards something you can buy after the fact invalidates the whole point of competing for them. This loops back to both points I previously made. I get that people REALLY wanted that ugly-ass Hellhound mount, and were upset they couldn't get it. . . if you busted your ass to hit top 100 in seasons 3 or 4 for it, then later SE just decides to make it a handout/achievement/token grind reward, how would you feel? Now answer carefully, taking into account that SE decided to level cap Ultimate Coil "to preserve the difficulty of the encounter, as well as the rarity of the achievement rewarded for its completion." (And according to Yoshi P, it will stay that way throughout Stormblood). What would you say to those that cleared that? Sure, the reward isn't exclusive, but would you tell them you and everyone else deserve it just as much later at say, i400?

For the same reason people bother with Savage/Extreme/Raids?! And there shouldn't be anything exclusive, so yeah, 'barely' is still too much. You're trying to make yourself into a poor victim of the bad developers that don't make PvP rewarding enough, but there's nothing in PvE that is exclusive (other than memory of ruined towns like Idyllshire for those that played back then, but that's not even an item and you can look for screenshots/videos of that).
Now, don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to promoting PvP and what not. I am against the concept of exclusives, and I am the same in respect to any exclusive. If they ever made a boss that can be killed only X amount of times before disappearing forever and drop items that will never be gotten anywhere else again, I'd be as much against it as I am against the Feast rewards.

I may point out the double standards, poor support, even poorer two-way communication from SE, and scorn/ignorance/hypocrisy from the community, but until I say so, I'm a victim of nothing and no one. I've never said PvP isn't rewarding enough; sure, it could use more, I wouldn't say no. But for what currently does exist, anything I wanted and fought hard enough for, I got. If I wasn't good enough to get it, I accepted that. That's just how competition works. Rarity and exclusivity don't matter to me, especially when the time and opportunity to make effort for them is the same for all. If you ONLY became interested in PvP after seasons 3 and 4 (when the mount was the prize), well that's just too bad. Can you really miss it if you weren't even around to try for it? You can be against exclusivity, fine. But using that mountain metaphor again, what incentive would you offer anyone to climb instead of walking the trail? That's already a bitter truth of raiding in this game. Why bust your ass for top level anything this tier when the next just hands out better stuff with far less effort?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Why do threads often turn so toxic when PVP is mentioned? Do we truly need to attack the people themselves even if they have "unpopluar" opinions? Better use all this bait for fishing but not for discussion.

First, let me play around with your question a bit. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I AM trying to widen the view a bit:

Why do threads often turn so toxic when [housing] is mentioned?
Why do threads often turn so toxic when [parsing] is mentioned?
Why do threads often turn so toxic when [the Mentor system] is mentioned?

Please think on that at a later time.

Now then, it's no secret that PvP is arguably the least popular feature of this game. From the limited mindset of "this isn't a PvP game" or "PvP doesn't belong in a Final Fantasy game", to the near sense of pride people seem to have for openly hating PVP, in this game or any other. You have openly nasty comments like "I wish they'd stop wasting development resources on PvP," or "PvPers are so toxic, that's why they don't deserve chat!" fired off regularly, as if fact and not the opinions they are, and often celebrated all the same. You get Resident Sleeper emojis and angry "nobody cares! Get on to more important stuff!" comments during live letter broadcasts, and NOW, you have a mass influx of people into PvP who don't know what to do, don't care what to do, and expect if not demand they receive rewards proportional to those who do, or openly exploit it for said rewards. And couple that with SE's poor handling, perhaps-not-intended neglect, and the recent sweeping changes that dismissed and alienated what was otherwise a dedicated part of the playerbase in favor of a mass appeal to a more fairweather audience that it still failed to legitimately attract.

Simply put, at almost every given turn, PvPers have gotten little, told they deserve less, told what they enjoy is a "waste of development", shunned, ignored, ridiculed, entirely misunderstood, then those same people want whatever little PvPers can actually get because "it's not fair that they only get it". . . I won't for a moment justify anyone being nasty about it, but don't you think people might be just a little irate to be subject to that? Consider for a moment how it might feel if it was something you enjoy most in the game that garners such hate and disregard. How would you feel?