Byakko... HM or EX ?

[Bacent]

Good for you dude. Parties are being strict about it so I can't even join groups to try to down it yet because it's 340, and I'm only 334 (Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so, as well as me spending 3200 tomestones on 2x new orchestron rolls). So seriously, good for you on clearing it and finding it too easy.

No matter the difficulty at this point just about, SOMEONE is gonna complain that it's 'too easy'. Don't like it like that? Join parties where you all handicap yourselves if you want more fun.

[HyoMinPark]

I personally think Byakko Ex is extremely easy, especially compared to Shinryu Ex. Makes me kind of sad, but it is what it is. I personally found the fight kind of fun the first couple of runs (mostly the falling phase), but now it’s just a tedious sort of gimmick-y thing to me. I will probably feel the same about V6S, even though I think the fight is super fun right now.

That being said, my favorite Ex is still Sophia, and she was the easiest Extreme in HW at release. Difficulty doesn’t necessarily equate to how fun a fight is.

(Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so, as well as me spending 3200 tomestones on 2x new orchestron rolls).

Little off-topic, but isn’t tank BiS crafted accessories again this tier? That’s what I’ve been hearing anyways. I don’t play tanks so I’m not sure, but I’ve heard that pentamelded crafted is BiS again. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

[Khalithar]

That being said, my favorite Ex is still Sophia, and she was the easiest Extreme in HW at release. Difficulty doesn’t necessarily equate to how fun a fight is.

This kind of fits in to my point about Byakko Ex a few pages ago. Much like Sophia, the difficulty is perfectly fine for the reward that it gives. Byakko and Sophia both provide entry level weapons for the new patches and aren't nearly as good as a tomestone or savage mode weapon. Based on the ilevel of the weapon Byakko yields, I believe the fight is perfectly fine as is. Now, if Byakko yielded a 265 weapon that was superior to the tomestone weapon? I would absolutely agree that it should be significantly more difficult. But since it doesn't, it shouldn't.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You make it sound like ingenuity is a bad thing. Tank LB is a tool handed out to the players long ago, if people can't see past using it only when it is mandatory like A12 that is a limitation of their own.

If the possibility of skipping the second tiger with a tank LB3 was intended or not we will only know if the devs ever outright state it. But as others have said, they could have easily just turned it into insta-death no matter what if they really wanted.

There is no disrespect or disregard for the developers by being creative on tackling the challenges they put in our way, unless someone is outright cheating or using exploits.

We know it isn't intended because the devs outright acknowledged Skip Soar memes were due to an inexperienced programmer on the battle team. Regardless, tank lb cheesing just encourages people not to bother actually learning the mechanics. What caused a handful of wipes with Zurvan were the sheer number of people who couldn't do Soar because they never bothered with it. There isn't much "ingenuity" to ignoring mechanics entirely.

This kind of fits in to my point about Byakko Ex a few pages ago. Much like Sophia, the difficulty is perfectly fine for the reward that it gives. Byakko and Sophia both provide entry level weapons for the new patches and aren't nearly as good as a tomestone or savage mode weapon. Based on the ilevel of the weapon Byakko yields, I believe the fight is perfectly fine as is. Now, if Byakko yielded a 265 weapon that was superior to the tomestone weapon? I would absolutely agree that it should be significantly more difficult. But since it doesn't, it shouldn't.

Is Byakko "perfectly tuned" relative to his reward or has Savage equally become watered dumb compared to what it once was? Regardless, even if you wouldn't place him around Shinryu's difficulty, he shouldn't roll over with a decent party. He does. The only real challenge is getting competent people, which, in PF, can be a struggle on the levels of Ultimate, admittedly.

Titan EX hasn't been done at min ilvl for 3 years or more. A lot of people came and went during that time, using it as any form of example is dumb. Everyone had to do Royal Menagerie, just to get to endgame, as the first phase of a popular new expansion launched. If you wanted to try to do an ex primal synched you often looked at hours of waiting in queue.

The difference is Titan EX actually demanding competency from you. I agree, being ejected from the fight entirely probably isn't the best mechanic but he had far more in his arsenal. Frankly, Titan Hard Mode was more punishing than Lakshmi EX. That's what spawns the continuous complaints about how easy content has become. Forget the primals for a moment and look no further than dungeons. When was the last time an Expert dungeon punished you for dumb mistakes? Not on an a constant insta-wipe, savage level nonsense. Just old ARR equivalents where Stone Vigil ate you alive if you pulled a ton. Even The Vault has been labeled "too hard on new healers" when it was among the few to actually demand healing in lieu of Holy spam. Granted, Hell's Lid is hella better than Kugane Castle, I'll say that much.

[Khalithar]

Is Byakko "perfectly tuned" relative to his reward or has Savage equally become watered dumb compared to what it once was?

Byakko is perfectly tuned relative to his reward.

[Sacred_Nym]

"Skip Soar"

The distinct difference that you don't seem to be getting that the Tank LB doesn't let us ignore the tiger mechanic entirely. We still have to do it in the first phase whether we like it or not. Meanwhile Soar could be skipped in the first phase by high DPS, which I'm almost certain is the part that devs were referring to with the comment about an inexperienced programmer. Nobody learned to do Soar and as soon as people had to do it groups fell apart. This isn't happening with Byakko.

Just wanted to make that clear.

[loreleidiangelo]

The distinct difference that you don't seem to be getting that the Tank LB doesn't let us ignore the tiger mechanic entirely. We still have to do it in the first phase whether we like it or not. Meanwhile Soar could be skipped in the first phase by high DPS, which I'm almost certain is the part that devs were referring to with the comment about an inexperienced programmer. Nobody learned to do Soar and as soon as people had to do it groups fell apart. This isn't happening with Byakko.

Just wanted to make that clear.

? Groups are absolutely falling apart if they don't have tank LB3 for the second add phase, are you kidding? Why do you think "no double jobs" is the new "skip Soar or disband"?

[Vaer]

The distinct difference that you don't seem to be getting that the Tank LB doesn't let us ignore the tiger mechanic entirely. We still have to do it in the first phase whether we like it or not. Meanwhile Soar could be skipped in the first phase by high DPS, which I'm almost certain is the part that devs were referring to with the comment about an inexperienced programmer. Nobody learned to do Soar and as soon as people had to do it groups fell apart. This isn't happening with Byakko.

Just wanted to make that clear.

IIRC Tank LB2 was used on the soar after broken seal, not the first one. Wasn't a fix all like tank LB3 in Byakko (I've actually been in a group where all 4 dps were dead in that phase due to failed gale/orbs and still cleared it using tank LB3 and raising people during the LB time, lol), since sometimes people still died because people were that bad at soar but sort of similar situation.

[Sacred_Nym]

? Groups are absolutely falling apart if they don't have tank LB3 for the second add phase, are you kidding? Why do you think "no double jobs" is the new "skip Soar or disband"?

If groups fail because of a lack of Tank LB3, it's because the group got lazy to do a mechanic for the second time in a fight. If groups failed Zurvan because they didn't skip, it was because nobody there knew how to do soar and actively refused to learn it. There's quite a difference.
Also maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't understand why "no double jobs" isn't the standard as well an option in PF. I mean the LB penalties on high end content are there for a reason but we have to police it ourselves. I honestly don't see why it's being compared to "Skip Soar".

IIRC Tank LB2 was used on the soar after broken seal, not the first one. Wasn't a fix all like tank LB3 in Byakko (I've actually been in a group where all 4 dps were dead in that phase due to failed gale/orbs and still cleared it using tank LB3 and raising people during the LB time, lol), since sometimes people still died because people were that bad at soar but sort of similar situation.

Soar was skipped in the first phase and then tank LB'd in the second for the express purpose of nobody having to learn the mechanic. You can't skip or Tank LB the first tiger in Byakko, so you can't avoid learning the mechanic or how it works. That's all I was trying to say.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Good for you dude. Parties are being strict about it so I can't even join groups to try to down it yet because it's 340, and I'm only 334 (Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so

I dont understand complaining about groups that lock it to 340, that's the recommended ilvl. And you didn't buy/upgrade tome gear, so I dont really understand the "good for you" attitude. It's undeniable that Byakko ex is considerably easier than Shinyru ex and fairly easy to learn if you can clear it in just 1 instance before running the timer out.

the "good for you" seems to me to imply OP is lucky, or gifted with superior skill, but the reality is Byakko took 1 day to learn for most people that farm Ex primals (and dip their toes into Savage), so it didn't feel really hard. Shinryu took a considerable amount of time for a lot of people to learn and felt like an achievement to clear, for comparison.