Byakko... HM or EX ?

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I know, I know, yet another elitist thread, but first, I don't feel at all like an hardcore raider. I downed O4S one week before 4.2 dropped, I progressed rather slowly on Deltascape, and my roster and I are casual to midcore raiders.

Yet, I really feel like Byakko EX really is Byakko HM. My first kill was with a PUG that went blind, and we killed it in 40 minutes, I did it first try with my roster after I spent... 1 or 2 min explaining the strat to them... It really lacks difficulty.

The fight is amazing, it's really entertaining, and so on, but I felt nothing when I killed him. Back in 2.2, when I killed Titan EX for the first time, I felt like I did something great. When I killed Byakko EX, I felt like I did a great fight, but not a hard one.

So yeah... maybe we need three difficulties, like Titan, Ifrit and Garuda had ?

[Starflake]

I agree, also with savage, really. Have cleared O5 and O6S and it was meh all over again when clearing it. Like time we felt good about clearing the first two turns was A5 and A6S. Great stuff.

[RiyahArp]

They do that, then I guarantee you'll be back here in a few months complaining how Byakko Nightmare is too easy, and we need a fourth difficulty tier. It never really ends.

Well, the only way it would is if they made it so hard you legitimately could not beat it. Because once you do, and get it on farm, it starts being easy again. Easy enough to run with all tanks, easy enough to run with 7 people to sell runs, etc.

[Rosentretter]

People will just complain about everything. Forever. And beyond.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

They do that, then I guarantee you'll be back here in a few months complaining how Byakko Nightmare is too easy, and we need a fourth difficulty tier. It never really ends.

Well, the only way it would is if they made it so hard you legitimately could not beat it. Because once you do, and get it on farm, it starts being easy again. Easy enough to run with all tanks, easy enough to run with 7 people to sell runs, etc.

I can know a fight inside and out yet still consider it challenging based on my own standards. Cruise Chase remained challenging despite being significantly easier than say, Brute Justice. He didn't abruptly become braindead after I cleared it a handful of times. Beating a fight doesn't make the fight itself objectively easy. You keep attempting to make this correlation and it simply doesn't exist.

No one complained Nidhogg was "too easy." Why is it every single time someone complains how easy the game has become, you immediately rush to extreme examples? With a competent party, Byakko rolls over. Unfortunately, competency is asking a lot in PF.

I'm 100% sure the strategy was intentional. It would have been trivial for them to make it such that the tiger would just flat out wipe you, regardless of tank LB, if you ignored it. They do this sort of thing in countless other fights in the game. They actively chose not to here.

I guarantee you it wasn't. They simply don't adapt to our cheese strats. This same thing happened with Zurvan, thus creating the ever beloved "Skip Soar or disband" memes. The dev team has difficulty with the NA/EU mindset. JP does the mechanics almost as a show of respect. NA/EU only care about getting through the fight the fastest way possible. If we can break a fight, we're going to do it.

[RiyahArp]

I can know a fight inside and out yet still certain it challenging based on my own standards.

What extreme example? People are comparing Byakko ex to zurvan, and people were quite adamant about how easy Zurvan was, and how all you needed to do to skip soar was just know how to do a normal opener. There's a tendency for this playerbase to assume a lot of stuff in this game really is easy, and it's just the player's fault they don't complete it. The only time it was otherwise was alex 1-8 savage + thordan, which was generally hard enough that people couldn't say this, and many people couldn't clear at all.

So if they raise difficulty, either in time it gets the same treatment or it gets so hard that he won't say it's easy because he can't beat it or find the people to farm it. I mean, you are using the last fight in arguably the second hardest raid tier in this game as a good model of difficulty is pretty extreme in itself, isn't it?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

What extreme example? People are comparing Byakko ex to zurvan, and people were quite adamant about how easy Zurvan was, and how all you needed to do to skip soar was just know how to do a normal opener. There's a tendency for this playerbase to assume a lot of stuff in this game really is easy, and it's just the player's fault they don't complete it. The only time it was otherwise was alex 1-8 savage + thordan, which was generally hard enough that people couldn't say this, and many people couldn't clear at all.

So if they raise difficulty, either in time it gets the same treatment or it gets so hard that he won't say it's easy because he can't beat it or find the people to farm it. I mean, you are using the last fight in arguably the second hardest raid tier in this game as a good model of difficulty is pretty extreme in itself, isn't it?

Both are easy. You make it sound as though expecting people to know how to execute a proper opener is too daunting a task. If someone cannot perform the basics of their job, they have no business joining EX Primal parties. The fact Byakko is even easier only emphasises how dumbed down the game has become. That continually philosophy makes people increasingly complacent because what incentive is there to improve? They'll just keep making things easier.

You realize they can raise the difficulty and not mimic Gordias, yes? I purpose cited Nidhogg since he's hardly on the level of Midas or Gordias yet he will punish players for messing up. Claiming people will argue Byakko "nightmare" isn't hard enough is disingenuous. I don't want ridiculously hard primals. That isn't their purpose. I just don't want fights where barely nothing from normal changes and we're able to cheese through mechanics with tank LB. Frankly, the worst part about Byakko is the absurdly long intermission. It's a gimmick to pad out his fight since it would scarcely last five minutes otherwise.

People use the tank lb because most of them arent good enough or geared enough to make the dps checks without it.While i welcome tank lb being used in fights.I dont think it should be used like this case as a crutch to carry people not really capable of the clear.

No they don't. People tank LB because it's faster. Ignoring Hakutei allows for significantly higher uptime on Byakko. Why wouldn't you take advantage of that?

[Bacent]

Good for you dude. Parties are being strict about it so I can't even join groups to try to down it yet because it's 340, and I'm only 334 (Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so, as well as me spending 3200 tomestones on 2x new orchestron rolls). So seriously, good for you on clearing it and finding it too easy.

No matter the difficulty at this point just about, SOMEONE is gonna complain that it's 'too easy'. Don't like it like that? Join parties where you all handicap yourselves if you want more fun.

[HyoMinPark]

I personally think Byakko Ex is extremely easy, especially compared to Shinryu Ex. Makes me kind of sad, but it is what it is. I personally found the fight kind of fun the first couple of runs (mostly the falling phase), but now it’s just a tedious sort of gimmick-y thing to me. I will probably feel the same about V6S, even though I think the fight is super fun right now.

That being said, my favorite Ex is still Sophia, and she was the easiest Extreme in HW at release. Difficulty doesn’t necessarily equate to how fun a fight is.

(Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so, as well as me spending 3200 tomestones on 2x new orchestron rolls).

Little off-topic, but isn’t tank BiS crafted accessories again this tier? That’s what I’ve been hearing anyways. I don’t play tanks so I’m not sure, but I’ve heard that pentamelded crafted is BiS again. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

[Khalithar]

That being said, my favorite Ex is still Sophia, and she was the easiest Extreme in HW at release. Difficulty doesn’t necessarily equate to how fun a fight is.

This kind of fits in to my point about Byakko Ex a few pages ago. Much like Sophia, the difficulty is perfectly fine for the reward that it gives. Byakko and Sophia both provide entry level weapons for the new patches and aren't nearly as good as a tomestone or savage mode weapon. Based on the ilevel of the weapon Byakko yields, I believe the fight is perfectly fine as is. Now, if Byakko yielded a 265 weapon that was superior to the tomestone weapon? I would absolutely agree that it should be significantly more difficult. But since it doesn't, it shouldn't.