Byakko... HM or EX ?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You make it sound like ingenuity is a bad thing. Tank LB is a tool handed out to the players long ago, if people can't see past using it only when it is mandatory like A12 that is a limitation of their own.

If the possibility of skipping the second tiger with a tank LB3 was intended or not we will only know if the devs ever outright state it. But as others have said, they could have easily just turned it into insta-death no matter what if they really wanted.

There is no disrespect or disregard for the developers by being creative on tackling the challenges they put in our way, unless someone is outright cheating or using exploits.

We know it isn't intended because the devs outright acknowledged Skip Soar memes were due to an inexperienced programmer on the battle team. Regardless, tank lb cheesing just encourages people not to bother actually learning the mechanics. What caused a handful of wipes with Zurvan were the sheer number of people who couldn't do Soar because they never bothered with it. There isn't much "ingenuity" to ignoring mechanics entirely.

This kind of fits in to my point about Byakko Ex a few pages ago. Much like Sophia, the difficulty is perfectly fine for the reward that it gives. Byakko and Sophia both provide entry level weapons for the new patches and aren't nearly as good as a tomestone or savage mode weapon. Based on the ilevel of the weapon Byakko yields, I believe the fight is perfectly fine as is. Now, if Byakko yielded a 265 weapon that was superior to the tomestone weapon? I would absolutely agree that it should be significantly more difficult. But since it doesn't, it shouldn't.

Is Byakko "perfectly tuned" relative to his reward or has Savage equally become watered dumb compared to what it once was? Regardless, even if you wouldn't place him around Shinryu's difficulty, he shouldn't roll over with a decent party. He does. The only real challenge is getting competent people, which, in PF, can be a struggle on the levels of Ultimate, admittedly.

Titan EX hasn't been done at min ilvl for 3 years or more. A lot of people came and went during that time, using it as any form of example is dumb. Everyone had to do Royal Menagerie, just to get to endgame, as the first phase of a popular new expansion launched. If you wanted to try to do an ex primal synched you often looked at hours of waiting in queue.

The difference is Titan EX actually demanding competency from you. I agree, being ejected from the fight entirely probably isn't the best mechanic but he had far more in his arsenal. Frankly, Titan Hard Mode was more punishing than Lakshmi EX. That's what spawns the continuous complaints about how easy content has become. Forget the primals for a moment and look no further than dungeons. When was the last time an Expert dungeon punished you for dumb mistakes? Not on an a constant insta-wipe, savage level nonsense. Just old ARR equivalents where Stone Vigil ate you alive if you pulled a ton. Even The Vault has been labeled "too hard on new healers" when it was among the few to actually demand healing in lieu of Holy spam. Granted, Hell's Lid is hella better than Kugane Castle, I'll say that much.

[Khalithar]

Is Byakko "perfectly tuned" relative to his reward or has Savage equally become watered dumb compared to what it once was?

Byakko is perfectly tuned relative to his reward.

[Sacred_Nym]

"Skip Soar"

The distinct difference that you don't seem to be getting that the Tank LB doesn't let us ignore the tiger mechanic entirely. We still have to do it in the first phase whether we like it or not. Meanwhile Soar could be skipped in the first phase by high DPS, which I'm almost certain is the part that devs were referring to with the comment about an inexperienced programmer. Nobody learned to do Soar and as soon as people had to do it groups fell apart. This isn't happening with Byakko.

Just wanted to make that clear.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Good for you dude. Parties are being strict about it so I can't even join groups to try to down it yet because it's 340, and I'm only 334 (Partially because I don't like dropping gil bombs on stuff that will be replaced in about a week or so

I dont understand complaining about groups that lock it to 340, that's the recommended ilvl. And you didn't buy/upgrade tome gear, so I dont really understand the "good for you" attitude. It's undeniable that Byakko ex is considerably easier than Shinyru ex and fairly easy to learn if you can clear it in just 1 instance before running the timer out.

the "good for you" seems to me to imply OP is lucky, or gifted with superior skill, but the reality is Byakko took 1 day to learn for most people that farm Ex primals (and dip their toes into Savage), so it didn't feel really hard. Shinryu took a considerable amount of time for a lot of people to learn and felt like an achievement to clear, for comparison.

[Vaer]

IMO it's around the same difficulty as Zurvan was when he was released. Not that hard, but still some mechanics that can cause a wipe if ignored. (Broken Seal in Zurvan / Expanding Orbs in Byakko) Would be harder if you couldn't cheese the 2nd tiger phase with tank lb3 and completely ignore all the mechanics in that phase. Pretty much like tank lbing the 2nd soar. I feel like it might be the same person who designed both fights. For most of the playerbase it is hard enough (Tons of people still die to Sweep the leg or eat balls like they are donuts), for people doing savage not really but I think the difficulty is set that way intentionally just like how people that can do ultimate the current savage difficulty is probably a bit easy for them.

[Vidu]

You bring up Titan EX - may I ask you about Shinryu, bot EX and NM? Because thats the more recent primal here and you know what? People complained that that one was to difficult - and certainly not killed by a PUG-group within 40 minutes. So... have you killed that one as easly?
To be honest: I havent tried Byakko EX yet, but I'd be fine with an EX-fight thats a bit easier than Shinryu was.

You should also notice that the difficulty-mode we ditched since Ifrit, Garuda and Titan is the 4-man-mode, not the EX-mode.

Titan EX was a real nice female dog of a fight - for me at least aswell. But do you know why later EX-modes feel easier? Because we got better at the game, because we've been playing it for years. Oh and because we've got less lag now... again, I cant talk about Byakko or about the experience of anyone else, so I'll speak in general about mine: Back in 2.2 I had trouble getting out of an AoE, partly because of lag, partly because I was just to stupid to do it. Splitting up the boss in T1 and moving it across the battlefield was a challenge and I honestly believed I'd never be able to play anything but a tank during Titan-fights (since as tank you can just stand there and get your head beaten in). Today, I can solo that fight. Landslides arent an issue anymore and I use Tempered Will not to save my ass because I cant do a mechanic but to be able to ignore this wind-knockback-thing in Shinryu so I can dish out more damage.
Titan EX wasnt more difficult as a fight by itself - if we'd get that one today, it would be among the easier ones. Titan EX was bad because we were bad (and probably because of no saftey-net for getting knocked off, I'd like to have that back...).
I understand wanting to have that feeling again and a real challenge for yourself, but I'm not sure thats really possible - and if I think about how the battle with Titan was a battle with a boss, serious lack of skill and lag, I dont think I actually want that back...
Strictly mechanically speaking every EX-mode in HW and SB is more complexe than Titan EX is, as a fight.

[Vhailor]

You bring up Titan EX - may I ask you about Shinryu, bot EX and NM? Because thats the more recent primal here and you know what? People complained that that one was to difficult - and certainly not killed by a PUG-group within 40 minutes. So... have you killed that one as easly?

Shinryu (NM anyway) is an inappropriate comparison. The complaints were largely centered around two factors that don't apply to Byakko: (a) it was a storyline fight; (b) it was a ridiculously large jump in difficulty relative to previous dungeons. Fix either of those, you have fewer justified complaints; fix both of them, you have no justified complaints.

I don't have a horse in this race, as I haven't tried Byakko nor do I plan to anytime soon. Just felt compelled to point out that you weren't comparing apples to apples.

[akaneakki]

You bring up Titan EX - may I ask you about Shinryu, bot EX and NM? Because thats the more recent primal here and you know what? People complained that that one was to difficult - and certainly not killed by a PUG-group within 40 minutes. So... have you killed that one as easly?

They complained it was too hard due to '' too many mechanics''

[AppleJinx]

EX primals were never that difficult to begin with barring a few fights like titan ex and thordan ex etc.

[Metalwrath]

Only reason its 'not that hard' is because you can cheese through it with tank limit break.If it wasnt for this factor i guarantee that most clear parties would be still seeing enrages.
Would be interesting to see if they made that phase instant wipe you regardless of tank lb.I guarantee most would be on forums crying and saying it was too hard.