DRKs just falling behind even more.

[Chrono_Rising]

and gained accsess to represial. Where drk lost allso Bloodbath but instead gaining lost represial from they default kit.
and there is where doom and gloom started.

Not to mention that what paladin received in Stormblood in the way of kit buffs greatly out weighs what paladin lost via cross role.

If you have a moment go and like this post to get Dark Knights some attention in the live letter:

The 4.2 changes to Dark Knight were nice, but didn't go anywhere far enough to address the core issues of the class. In terms of DPS, mitigation and utility we now feel farther behind PLD and WAR than ever before. And ever since the 4.0 changes DRK's lost a lot of their identity with previous class specific skills such as reprisal and low blow becoming role actions, losing Shadowskin, and an overall dramatic increase to clunkiness in terms of feel due to having to use dark arts, skill, dark arts, skill, etc.

As DRK's we feel like we've been left in dark place and forgotten about. Are there any plans to overhaul or rework the class?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4564656

[Mahrze]

https://s13.postimg.org/eye9iuz1z/drk.png

As a counter example, one locked PF doesn't indicate a problem. In fact, most PFs on my data center for O(5-8)S are locked to just one tank, with the other slot open.

Way too many questions on that PF image that would derail this topic to something that is not the point. And we'll go on forever if we're to take only one sample of an event. Again, you add anecdotal evidence (which is not enough to be factual but I digress) that in your DC, PFs are mostly one tank, yet that doesn't address the immediate question anyone would ask: out of 10 PFs with 1 tank, how many of them are DRK? In a bigger scale: What's the recurring ratio of PLD v WAR v DRK and which is preferred more as the default tank?

But that is not the real issue here, the real issue is that as more people see that PLD/WAR can achieve progression clears and speed kills with much better synergy and convenience than a DRK in the group. Where as DRK is still driving the struggle bus; there will still be people who will ostracize it with very subjective (but not wrong) reasoning. And DRK has three glaring caveats:

* It doesn't have the DPS to match or exceed its peers when in toolkits are compared.
* It has a much higher skill floor to properly play it than the other two and doesn't yield comparable results.
* The synergy within its toolkit and resources is jarring at worst which also translates in a poor job identity.

DRKs aren't really asking to be top tier tank or best DPS tank (though the lack of utility they have falls within the Dev team's current mantra of More utility = Less Personal performance), they ask for fixes to a maimed and incomplete toolkit. Add fuel to the fire with SE ignoring all these previous points that are backed up by both anecdotal and factual information and you have a glaring problem of both frustration and outrage. SE didn't do any better when they have been buffing WAR since 4.0 and its right now a one man army pseudo-akin to how it was in 3.0 while DRK is still in a WTF limbo for the last 7 months.

[Mahrze]

Sorry for double posting but I feel this needs a post of its own. In all the language sub-forums the community is addressing the same issue so we might wanna rain some likes on their side too. Continuous reminders might be necessary for them to address the problem. Because it IS a problem. And try to add likes to all posts regarding DRK

暗黒騎士が他タンク二ジョブに比してPT貢献スキルが少ないのに、DPSが特に秀でていない(戦士には大きく劣っている)状況は想定内ですか？

Google Translate says: Although the dark knight has less PT contribution skills than other two tank jobs, Is the situation that DPS is not particularly excellent (it is greatly inferior to warriors) is within the assumption?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4564927
-----

The 4.2 changes to Dark Knight were nice, but didn't go anywhere far enough to address the core issues of the class. In terms of DPS, mitigation and utility we now feel farther behind PLD and WAR than ever before. And ever since the 4.0 changes DRK's lost a lot of their identity with previous class specific skills such as reprisal and low blow becoming role actions, losing Shadowskin, and an overall dramatic increase to clunkiness in terms of feel due to having to use dark arts, skill, dark arts, skill, etc.

As DRK's we feel like we've been left in a dark place and forgotten about. What plans do you have to address these issues (such as a rework or complete overhaul of the class)?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...56#post4564656
-----

Le faible ajustement du Chevalier Noir alors que c'est le job de Tank qui en a le plus besoin est une déception.

Je comprends que "Nuit Noirissime" est une compétence puissante. Mais pouvez-vous justifier le coût astronomique en MP d'Hôte Ténébreux ou encore le Cooldown plus long de Mur d'Ombre pour une compétence plus faible que les homologues des autres jobs de Tank (Sentinelle et Représailles) ? Ce sont des ajustements simple.
Les 2 autres jobs font la même chose et en mieux. (Tanking, DPS, protection d'équipe). Le Chevalier Noir possède 2 grosses ressources à gérer (MP et Sang Noir) et doit faire un choix pour chaque partie de son rôle.

Comptez-vous revoir en profondeur le job si les joueurs ne le jouent plus ? Considérer vous ajouter un Soin plus puissant et une protection de groupe au Chevalier Noir ?

Google Translate says: The weak adjustment of the Black Knight while it is Tank's job that needs it most is a disappointment.

I understand that "Dark Night" is a powerful skill. But can you justify the astronomical cost in Dark Host MP or the longer Shadowwall Cooldown for a lower skill than the counterparts of Tank's other jobs (Sentinel and Retaliation)? These are simple adjustments.
The other 2 jobs do the same thing and better. (Tanking, DPS, team protection). The Black Knight has 2 large resources to manage (MP and Black Blood) and must make a choice for each part of his role.

Do you expect to thoroughly review the job if players do not play it anymore? Consider adding a more powerful treatment and group protection to the Black Knight?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4565266

-----

Wann wird der Dark Knight wieder attraktiv?

Google Translate says: When will the Dark Knight become attractive again?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4564964

[MagiusNecros]

Mmm yes. Let's like em all. Divide and conquer. Let's try to aim for triple digit likes here. We Dark Knights need to rise up and kill teh templ-er mete out justice that's due.

[whiskeybravo]

They even failed at nerfing WAR as now their burst is even higher AND berserk now doubles as a defensive tool since it forces equilibrium to crit!
At this point they are just mocking everyone who plays DRK.
Like parent's taking toys from their son to give to their daughter then laughing as the son cries in the corner.

Why are people talking about this? I mean it can be useful in a dungeon I suppose (Steel cyclone spam not enough?), but all Equilibrium is giving in an actual IR window is TP.

[Jonnycbad]

DRKs say they can't "self heal" like PLD can. Isn't TBN sort of like a self-heal in that it gives you a 10% HP stoneskin? It's more preventative than Clemency, but the principle is similar, converting MP into HP (or rather in this case, a shield), and your DPS combo grants HP to boot. Maybe they should add some HP drain to Bloodspiller?

[Delily]

Way too many questions on that PF image that would derail this topic to something that is not the point. And we'll go on forever if we're to take only one sample of an event. Again, you add anecdotal evidence (which is not enough to be factual but I digress) that in your DC, PFs are mostly one tank, yet that doesn't address the immediate question anyone would ask: out of 10 PFs with 1 tank, how many of them are DRK? In a bigger scale: What's the recurring ratio of PLD v WAR v DRK and which is preferred more as the default tank?

This was a response to the other image someone posted about a PF locked to just WAR and PLD. That was a single image. Most of the other entries specified either PLD or WAR, by the way. Before we go on about how DRKs are getting locked out of content, make sure it's really happening.

But that is not the real issue here, the real issue is that as more people see that PLD/WAR can achieve progression clears and speed kills with much better synergy and convenience than a DRK in the group. Where as DRK is still driving the struggle bus; there will still be people who will ostracize it with very subjective (but not wrong) reasoning. And DRK has three glaring caveats:

* It doesn't have the DPS to match or exceed its peers when in toolkits are compared.
* It has a much higher skill floor to properly play it than the other two and doesn't yield comparable results.
* The synergy within its toolkit and resources is jarring at worst which also translates in a poor job identity.

DRKs aren't really asking to be top tier tank or best DPS tank (though the lack of utility they have falls within the Dev team's current mantra of More utility = Less Personal performance), they ask for fixes to a maimed and incomplete toolkit. Add fuel to the fire with SE ignoring all these previous points that are backed up by both anecdotal and factual information and you have a glaring problem of both frustration and outrage. SE didn't do any better when they have been buffing WAR since 4.0 and its right now a one man army pseudo-akin to how it was in 3.0 while DRK is still in a WTF limbo for the last 7 months.

The main issue is that SE designed the WAR to be the "high damage" tank and the PLD is the "high defense" tank. That doesn't leave much room for a third option, unlike healing and damage dealing which have a myriad of options. Our core identity is based off using Dark Arts to modify our skills, the idea being we're supposed to choose if we want to use our MP or not for some benefit. The problem is that there is very little reason to do that. I'm just as frustrated by you with SE's apparent inability or unwillingness to address the problems. The 4.2 WAR changes were a surprise to me, up until that point, I wasn't aware WAR needed anything. However, screaming that we're being locked out of high end content isn't going to help much because SE has the data.

[Deathshiro]

DRKs say they can't "self heal" like PLD can. Isn't TBN sort of like a self-heal in that it gives you a 10% HP stoneskin? It's more preventative than Clemency, but the principle is similar, converting MP into HP (or rather in this case, a shield), and your DPS combo grants HP to boot. Maybe they should add some HP drain to Bloodspiller?

Only in Grit* for the hp from souleater, which if you raid you avoid Grit like a plague. Clemency can be used 5 times in succession while also giving the user 50% of the hp restored that the target recieves. TBN just gives the user 50 blood if the shield is broken either way and can only be used every 15s... tbh comparing the two is kinda off as they both serve two different roles. One helps restore hp to party members while the party is low while another is mostly used to mitigate incoming tank damage.

[Delily]

DRKs say they can't "self heal" like PLD can. Isn't TBN sort of like a self-heal in that it gives you a 10% HP stoneskin? It's more preventative than Clemency, but the principle is similar, converting MP into HP (or rather in this case, a shield), and your DPS combo grants HP to boot. Maybe they should add some HP drain to Bloodspiller?

It's more akin to Sheltron in that it deflects damage and grants back a resource. However, unlike Sheltron which is guaranteed MP, TBN only gives Blood if the full amount is absorbed. We don't need an HP drain on Bloodspiller, we already have one on Soul Eater that's affected by Dark Arts. It's more that Dark Art is too expensive to spam, and the amount returned isn't that great.

[TouchandFeel]

DRKs say they can't "self heal" like PLD can. Isn't TBN sort of like a self-heal in that it gives you a 10% HP stoneskin? It's more preventative than Clemency, but the principle is similar, converting MP into HP (or rather in this case, a shield), and your DPS combo grants HP to boot. Maybe they should add some HP drain to Bloodspiller?

In terms of the general concept of "heal", damage needs to be done so that it can then be healed. Preventing it in the first place is not healing.

Semantics aside, making such a broad definition of what could constitute as a self-heal opens up quite the can of worms in which technically at that point all mitigation could be argued to be "self-healing" for a tank.

Here is an example. In addition to Clemency, PLD also has an ability that is quite similar to TBN which is Sheltron. Sheltron guarantees an attack to be blocked, therefore preventing damage. It is trading gauge for HP, so therefore is a "self-heal" fueled by gauge like TBN is a self-heal fueled by MP.

Seems silly right? So maybe we should keep the definition of "heals" and "self-heals" to abilities that restore damage and not ones that prevent it.
While they both have the same general goal of dealing with damage taken and preventing death, they are really not the same.