STR/DEX/PIE/ATK Testing

[Radiator]

Does incremental Piety increase the DOT inflicted from bloodletter?

[Seiken]

Well, I think when looking at ARC and the other melee classes as a whole, there has to be some balance. ARC already has ranged attacks (great to avoid Ifrit AoE, Moogle flare etc), and their combos do not require to hit the mob from any specific direction. Those two traits alone make ARC invaluable to a fight like the Moogle fight. Also, consider that ARC can prebuff one of it's strongest attacks, Barrage, and hold on to it for ~60 seconds. Then you consider the debuffs it adds. I think if they made ARC have higher damage potential as well, the class would be entirely overpowered. What would be the reason to play PUG, LNC, or MRD? GLA is already the "best" tank as far as I know, so what is the incentive to play the other classes? They can't debuff nearly as much, their combos are a complete pain to pull off on a moving target, and they are subject to being hit by way more AoE attacks. If the other classes don't do more damage per WS, then ARC is definitely overpowered in my opinion.

[Arya]

Well, I think when looking at ARC and the other melee classes as a whole, there has to be some balance. ARC already has ranged attacks (great to avoid Ifrit AoE, Moogle flare etc), and their combos do not require to hit the mob from any specific direction. Those two traits alone make ARC invaluable to a fight like the Moogle fight. Also, consider that ARC can prebuff one of it's strongest attacks, Barrage, and hold on to it for ~60 seconds. Then you consider the debuffs it adds. I think if they made ARC have higher damage potential as well, the class would be entirely overpowered. What would be the reason to play PUG, LNC, or MRD? GLA is already the "best" tank as far as I know, so what is the incentive to play the other classes? They can't debuff nearly as much, their combos are a complete pain to pull off on a moving target, and they are subject to being hit by way more AoE attacks. If the other classes don't do more damage per WS, then ARC is definitely overpowered in my opinion.

ARC having ranged attacks is like saying Melee have point-blank attacks. It's not like ARC have ranged AND melee attacks.

As for the "don't have to stand on a particular side", that's true, but ARC's have to ensure they stand a fair distance away from a mob for a combo to activate. Too close (happens easily in fights where hate can bounce, or where mob just won't sit still) and the combo doesn't activate and TP use becomes less efficient, and too far and you aren't allowed to hit anything.

I have no interest in turning this into an ARC vs everything else thread - as has already been said, if that's your aim, start a new thread.

I agree with Spider-Dan (and other posters) in that the way attributes and their effects seem to have been doled out doesn't seem to have been appropriately thought out. Gear one might make for ARC's (assuming the OP's info is pretty accurate - and I don't see anything suggesting strongly otherwise) essentially becomes non-optimal if you are the kind of player that would like to have pieces of gear usable for multiple jobs. No other DoW job is going to want a ton of PIE over other stats like STR and VIT. ARC has been disadvantaged.

[Spider-Dan]

All of those points are fair arguments as to why ARC should be a worse DD than other DoW. But that's a separate argument; I'm not discussing whether or not ARC deserves to be hurt by the PIE/DEX reliance, but rather whether or not such a reliance is actually a disadvantage.

You can make the argument that ARC deserves to be disadvantaged by the DEX/PIE reliance (for various reasons), and that's fine. But first, do you acknowledge that it is a disadvantage?

[Zdenka]

All of those points are fair arguments as to why ARC should be a worse DD than other DoW. But that's a separate argument; I'm not discussing whether or not ARC deserves to be hurt by the PIE/DEX reliance, but rather whether or not such a reliance is actually a disadvantage.

You can make the argument that ARC deserves to be disadvantaged by the DEX/PIE reliance (for various reasons), and that's fine. But first, do you acknowledge that it is a disadvantage?

You aren't looking at the big picture.

What PIE does: Land debuffs
What will ARC become: BRD

PIE makes perfect sense to boost its Light Shot damage because you will want to load on PIE anyways to land the BRD enfeebles (when they are added).

So as BRD DPS drops off in favor of the suited DD classes, it can still get an extra amount of damage while still gearing towards its main role.

In this regard making ARC's damage PIE dependent makes perfect sense.

This game is going through the overhaul in stages, things that might seem strange currently most likely have another purpose in the future; you just have to think about that when questioning some things they are doing.

[Spider-Dan]

You aren't looking at the big picture.

What PIE does: Land debuffs
What will ARC become: BRD

PIE makes perfect sense to boost its Light Shot damage because you will want to load on PIE anyways to land the BRD enfeebles (when they are added).

1) You don't know that BRD is even going to get debuffs. They aren't getting any in the most current ability lists.
2) Why are you presuming that BRD and ARC must share modifiers? There's no reason why BRD and ARC can't have different modifiers. The game already has a robust infrastructure for changing the various formulas for an ability depending on which class/job you are currently on.

[Coglin]

1) You don't know that BRD is even going to get debuffs. They aren't getting any in the most current ability lists.
Umm, yes they are. I dunno what list your using, but the official one says we will get at the very least:

BRD WS 1-Target AoE-Deals damage to all enemies within range of the target. Combo: ARC WS 4, Bonus: Chance to inflict Stun.

2) Why are you presuming that BRD and ARC must share modifiers? There's no reason why BRD and ARC can't have different modifiers. The game already has a robust infrastructure for changing the various formulas for an ability depending on which class/job you are currently on.
With this, I can agree. For now though, we have no reason to assume they will have different modifiers.

Reguardless, I find an AoE stun as a pretty darn good good reason to desire to beef up stats that will assist in raising the chances to make it stick.

[Spider-Dan]

Umm, yes they are. I dunno what list your using, but the official one says we will get at the very least:

BRD WS 1-Target AoE-Deals damage to all enemies within range of the target. Combo: ARC WS 4, Bonus: Chance to inflict Stun.

That's true, but that totally destroys the idea of BRD being PIE-based for "debuffs." If you're going to count WS additional effects, every DoW has multiple added-effect WSes, so that's no argument for specifically making ARC or BRD reliant on PIE.

In other words, since ARC (and/or BRD) gains no more from PIE than any other DoW, and they would gain just as much as the others if STR replaced PIE in their damage calculation, PIE-based damage is still to their detriment.

[Mihana]

Looking at your data I'm curious about one piece of Gridanian gear, the Serpent Sergeant's Tunic is similar to the Rainmaker's Tunic but with STR+10 MND+10 Attack+7 compared to the STR+6 MND+6 Attack+4 that the Rainmaker's has. It grants roughly +13 more defense too. Typically I figure it wouldn't really be worthwhile but on my server currently the price of Piety materia alone is insane. Might that tunic make a decent substitute or should I just stick with my Rainmaker's? Currently it has a +40 Crit Attack Power materia melded to it but I'm being told by someone who read this guide that it's useless.

[Seiken]

Hey Mihana, I haven't really tested the Crit Attack Power materia, but it is just my preference to always have a more reliable damage source with PIE/STR/ATK. For most enemies your rank, you will crit about 8-12% of your shots without using Blindside. For high ranked enemies, the crit % drops further (Looking at my last 4 moogle fights, i critted 4.95, 7.15, 8.14, and 5.35%). That being said, I would not invest the 5000 seals in the Serpent Sergeant's Tunic if I were you. You are gaining 4 STR and 3ATK, which is about 8.5 total STR assuming the 3:2 STR:ATK ratio is valid. Based off my R52/R55 data, you would only get about a 1.1% increase in damage. I would keep using your +40 Crit Rainmakers Tunic until you can save up and socket some PIE onto a new tunic. Getting 275-285 PIE should be your first priority as ARC to do more damage. Even single socketing a +13 PIE onto the tunic would increase your damage twice as much as the Sergeant's Tunic (2.3% versus 1.1%).

I hope this helps,

Seiken