I don't know what to make of this.

[Solarianna]

Alright, this thread has actually been insightful for me.
But on the other hand, I feel this took a direction that wasn't my original intent. This turned into a discussion about how people prefer to engage content, when I originally wanted to vent about people being averse to help to the extent of being inflammatory.

I also was misunderstood, from what I can gather.
People are perceiving me as an elitist, hardcore raider who wants everything done and farmed now, and will make you walk the plank if you don't obey.

When in reality, I don't even raid (my will to follow raid schedules died alongside my will to play WoW), I stay the hell away from Savage content, and spend more time helping people in their roulettes and crafting for them than anything else.

People are perceiving me as a hardcore but, as a player, I lean way more towards casual.

But the message was mine to pass, and if people misunderstood me I've noone to blame but myself for being a poor messenger.

With that being said, there's a lot to take from this thread. For me, specifically. I didn't know that what I perceive as lending people a hand was so widely perceived as being pushy. Obviously, it still doesn't excuse the other person's behaviour in the least. If you communicate that way, and impose upon others with that tone and pseudo-superiority, you're a narcisist, regardless of which opinion you're trying to defend.
But my opinion has, over time, apparently become a minority, and I was oblivious to it.
The gaming principles in MMORPGs have moved away from "let's compromise to be able to help each other" to more of a "don't screw my game, and I won't ruin yours". Now, we can argue until the cows come home about if this change is ethically sustainable or not, and if it stems from the modern society's average person's bigger aversion to build commitment towards others, and we can also write endless poetry about how people are becoming more "me first, if the others don't like it, move away or deal with it".
This is obviously an endless fountain of societal issues and discussions that are not pertinent to a gaming forum. And that wasn't the original intention for the thread either.

Ethics aside: I've learned that the random people I get on groups, don't want anything of me bar "hello" and "bye", the odd meme/joke, and that I don't compromise the success of the content at hand.

So, from now on, I quite simply, will shut up and leave people to their own. I won't bring any more interaction with me than a squadron NPC with a couple of greetings.
I can talk all I want about how sad I am that helping people has somehow become a bad thing, but in the end, I'm me, and not them.

If at some point I feel I'm held hostage to someone's attitude or stubbornness (I mean attitude, not game skill, I need to make this clear. Wipes don't scare nor phase me as long as people's hearts are in the right place), I'll quite simply try to vote the person off. If the problem isn't solved, then I'll eat the 30 minutes penalty myself.

This was quite a reality check. Not happy in the least about what I learned. But my original intent has always been helping others. Causing them distress, is not helping, and therefore, strays away from what I wanted to do.

Thank you everyone for your time.

[Rokke]

But my opinion has, over time, apparently become a minority, and I was oblivious to it.
The gaming principles in MMORPGs have moved away from "let's compromise to be able to help each other" to more of a "don't screw my game, and I won't ruin yours". Now, we can argue until the cows come home about if this change is ethically sustainable or not, and if it stems from the modern society's average person's bigger aversion to build commitment towards others, and we can also write endless poetry about how people are becoming more "me first, if the others don't like it, move away or deal with it"

This is obviously an endless fountain of societal issues and discussions that are not pertinent to a gaming forum. And that wasn't the original intention for the thread either.

Ethics aside: I've learned that the random people I get on groups, don't want anything of me bar "hello" and "bye", the odd meme/joke, and that I don't compromise the success of the content at hand.

So, from now on, I quite simply, will shut up and leave people to their own. I won't bring any more interaction with me than a squadron NPC with a couple of greetings.
I can talk all I want about how sad I am that helping people has somehow become a bad thing, but in the end, I'm me, and not them.

See, now I really wonder if you posted the full "story". The other person had a crap attitude, but yours isn't much better lmao

[SeriousxSarcasm]

See, now I really wonder if you posted the full "story". The other person had a crap attitude, but yours isn't much better lmao

... I was wondering that myself. Where does anyone in this thread display the attitude she says she saw here? All I see are people trying to correct the perception that wanting fresh content when it is actually fresh shouldn't be criticized, but everyone agrees that poor behavior is not forgivable.

[Solarianna]

See, now I really wonder if you posted the full "story". The other person had a crap attitude, but yours isn't much better lmao

I don't see how me being sad for things having turned out this way is having a bad attitude. Or are you going to tell me that I don't have the right to feel sad either?

And about what you imply, I'll be perfectly happy enlightening you about any further doubt that you may have about what happened. Although I doubt I can add much more when I already CTRL+C CTRL+V'd the entire conversation, adding only paragraphs to make it more readable.

But hey, I had to take "irrelevant", "pushy" and "rude" on the last few hours. If you want to imply something else about me, now is the time.

Passive-aggressiveness aside, if you do have anything else you'd like to see clarified, please construct a proper question and I'll read it when I wake up.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

I don't see how me being sad for things having turned out this way is having a bad attitude. Or are you going to tell me that I don't have the right to feel sad either?

Do you really not see it? She quoted a rather damning part, you're basically implying that everyone in the thread who responded with their personal preferences for blind runs is selfish and terrible (again, all of them I saw were people stipulating that this is during the early days of a patch only. Not stuff that is weeks and months and years old). It's considered basic courtesy to give people that chance when content is still less than a week old. I emphasis because people seem to keep brushing over that part of everyone's comments for some reason.

[EmmaVirgin]

i play videogames since the middle of the nineties.

is it important or should anyone care about it

NOPE!

do you like it if someone at the cinema a seat behind you tells the last 5 minutes of the movie while the trailers are running at the beginning?

well i can see that you just want to help and its a nice part of your attitude. keep it
but i can understand the other one too. he/she overreacts no question.

[BillyKaplan]

I didn't know that what I perceive as lending people a hand was so widely perceived as being pushy.

You found out what a lot of us Mentors learn pretty quickly into doing Mentor roulettes. Wanting a run to go smoothly instead of going through a learning curve you're already past and passing that experience along is considered rude and condescending. How dare you want them to know what they're doing.
Which is why it's better to always just ask first and if they want explanations later, they can't complain you didn't provide it since you did ask and they said no or just stayed quiet
There's really no need to take it to the extreme you described in the rest of your post o/ Just because the world isn't what you thought it was doesn't mean you need to be quite that jaded.

[KarstenS]

But on the other hand, I feel this took a direction that wasn't my original intent. This turned into a discussion about how people prefer to engage content, when I originally wanted to vent about people being averse to help to the extent of being inflammatory.

So you were just looking for acknowledgement to feel better?

Starting a discussion means not, everybody have to agree your point. It means to expect and accept, that people can have a different opinion than you.

What you currently do here is the same as you describe in your opening post of what you have done in the game. Your point is "My way is the onliest true way" and people answer -> no, its not!

[Trunks]

This happened to me when Rabanstre came out. We wiped 4 times to 2nd boss before I asked, simply, "does anyone have any questions? " (smiley included, srsly). It set off an instant flame war and the alliance vote disbanded after the next wipe before I could even clarify that I was, in fact, offering to help and was not, in fact, an elitist agent of the Fun Police.

I mean it's fine if people want to tackle a fight blind, they should have that opportunity. That is my preference as well, in fact. But I don't think there's some absolute right that for the first week you get to just force people to tag along while you wipe endlessly because you're stubborn. If you want to do that you really should be in PF, or with your FC, or friends, or whatever.

[Sida]

This happened to me when Rabanstre came out. We wiped 4 times to 2nd boss before I asked, simply, "does anyone have any questions? " (smiley included, srsly). It set off an instant flame war and the alliance vote disbanded

In similar situations, my question is "shall we go through the tactics" or "let's go through the tactics, shall we?" And I'm yet to have it backfire. The difference in nuance is slight but I think it might be the "let's figure out how WE can beat this" instead of "which ONE of you is not getting it"

That or I've just chanced on less flammatory groups.