I don't know what to make of this.

[SinisterJoints]

Hi!

For future reference, we share our sad and incredible crazy stories here!

You pretty much found the infamous "You don't pay my sub" player. They way they reacted to your advice was clearly wrong. Although, most of us also find that kind of player, the entitled child that think they can do whatever they want. The only thing we can do is to ignore them and move on. If they harass you or insult you, well, there's an alternative route: report them.

EDIT: Also! as a veteran MMO myself too, in this game is when I gave up when it comes to give advice/explanations. People get triggered or they just ignore you. At most I can demand certain things like "Yo, use AoE moves please". But you can guess what happens there too. That's the community we have. It's not the majority but you'll find them eventually.

Ill be honest, I prefer to learn fights the first time also. (going in blind) and generally just minimize my chat window when people just start explaining things. I mean, thats great that you cleared and now are trying to farm but let us experience what you did too? Not everyone gets to log in as soon as the patch goes live.

This is my prefrence

[Solarianna]

@Lilseph

Amidst all the salt I totally forgot that thread existed. Having read some of it, no less. My apologies. Won't post this there, since it'd be alike spam to have the same thing in two different places, but I'll make sure I remember next time.

@Rokke

While I personally disagree, I respect your input. But regardless of opinion, it was the person's attitude that brought me here, not his/her opinion.

@Kazrah

While I do get where that theory comes from, I personally have a hard time agreeing with it. Maybe it's a sign of the times changing. I absolutely hate to be the "back in my day" guy (especially given I'm not that old), but MMORPGs originally had much more semblance to survival gameplay than now. The mentality I've been used to (and agreed with) is a mentality in which every bit of help is welcome, and information must be shared. This is the first time I've come face to face with someone who legitimately says "screw your help, because here's my achievements, you suck, and stfu and don't spoil my fight". The concept of "spoiling fights" wasn't even a thing back then.
Refusing simple pointers about mechanics, in order to safeguard one's immerson (which in my opinion, is debatable, because handing out simple pointers about AoEs and question marks, is not the same thing as spoiling a fight. Unless I shove a youtube video down someone's throat), is something that would not fly, as it would be perceived as compromising the experience of the group as a whole, for the sake of a whim. When in a group, I believe that I have the responsibility not to value myself over nor under the other players. Group first, personal whims after. Which is why, after a wipe, instead of flaming everyone because "noobs" I usually offer to explain, if I can, what needs doing. I don't expect thanks, but getting belittled and insulted for trying to help... I must admit, it was a first.

With that being said, salt aside, didn't even consider reporting the guy. I'm used to the Internet, I don't report people easily. He wasn't that offensive. Just absurdly narcisistic, self-righteous, and owner of a rather aggravating way of communicating.

@winsock

I believe you're comparing two different things. Offering short informations about the mechanics at hand after a wipe, to help people know what happened, is far from spoiling the whole thing. If one wipes, someone offers their help, and said person refuses it just for the sake of protecting some sort of immersion, then I believe that person is completely disregarding the fact that the other members are his/her equals. It equals saying " This is gonna take however long it takes ME, so deal with it or get out".
And I don't expect everything cleared on first day. If I did, I wouldn't have offered what little I knew. I'd have either flamed the person (which is something many people complain about in this forum, no less), or left because "lol you actually wiped once, you're all bad, bye". I used to raid back when I played WoW, and my guild would wipe dozens of times before every new kill. Wiping and progressing is perfectly fine for me. Holding the group hostage by refusing little bits of help/direction, all for the sake of protecting immersion, on the other hand, isn't.

But this is an opinion. Apparently a heavily outdated one, since times change, and so did gaming. But if the person I quoted had presented his/hers as politely as you did, I wouldn't have started this thread.

@AppleJinx

I understand what you're suggesting, but I am incapable of going that route. When in a group, I value everyone's time as much as mine. If there are means for me to better the group as whole, I can't help myself but do them as far as humanly possible.

@Andevom

As I mentioned before, sign of times, I guess. I may indeed be stuck living in another age.
Oh, and I did become more hostile, I know, don't need to be afraid to say it. The people I know in-game know me for being someone rather understanding and patient of others, that never ever gets full-toxic, but I'm no saint. If someone pushes the wrong buttons, I never aggressively offend and call names, but my nice tone vanishes. If I'm unhappy with someone, I won't hide it.

@Hugowulf

Venting. No more and no less.

[Lunafreya]

I like going in blind always but that being said that guy is a tool for harassing you. Getting an 04s clear isnt hard and it's a very easy fight. Not sure why he was linking the weapon in your face. Anyway, I'd definitely report him.

[Emstidor]

I think a lot of people in this thread are taking issue with this part of your reply

Me to him/her: you're the first I've seen in YEARS with that mentality
>> you're basically saying you know you could do better, but don't want to

His response was inappropriately rude, but his original point that some people like the thrill of venturing into the unknown and figuring things out on their own is very understandable and judging by the thread a lot more common than you realize.

Assuming you run this content weekly for the drop/weapon piece, you're gonna have a long time where it's okay to expect runs where everyone immediately knows what to do and there's no uncertainty, so holding off the first week to preserve that "first run" experience for those who care about it isn't gonna kill you.

[Bobs]

That's why you don't give unsolicited advice. It is always perceived as hostile.

(waits for the hostility)

[Solarianna]

@Rockette

I don't get upset at people not doing what I want. I get upset at people needlessly bellitling and name-calling me, after I tried to help them.
And I didn't mean the 2004 thing as a badge. I said time and time again that I don't think myself better than anyone. I used 2004 as a time measure for how long it took to come face to face with someone with that attitude towards receiving help. I wouldn't have written this post if the person in question would've just said "I appreciate it, but no thanks".

@Kakiko

Fair enough. But do know that this started exactly BECAUSE I tried to take other people's experience into consideration. That person's reaction was from me politely trying to help them, not from me flaming them. What I learn from this is that times changed, and people apparently are adopting a mindset in which sharing input is not welcome. Which isn't wrong nor right, it is what it is. But I feel sad that people are so evasive of other people's help, that I do.
And I'm repeating myself, but I'm learning the fights too, all I wanted was to share what l had acquired up until that moment. Far from hand-holding on my eyes, but this is of course, subjective.

@SinisterJoints

Not trying to farm. Trying to help.

[Solarianna]

@Emstidor

"a lot more common than you realize" - Yes. I guess I am stuck in another time. What I perceive as helping, seems to be generally perceived these days as being rude. Unfortunate as it is, it's not my original intention.

@Bobs

I'm not hostile to advice. It'd be pretty hypocritical if I was, wouldn't it? :P And if anything, this whole thread proves you right.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

My personal preference/experience with this sorta thing:

Tbh it's why I rush through raids and dungeon day one of patch. I wish I didn't have to. I'd like to take my time and enjoy it a bit more. There's a little thrill being confronted with a new mechanic that no one knows how to handle yet. But I know within a day or two there's gonna be some "helpful soul" in every party that makes a point to tell us everything in the beginning (but lets be honest, they just want a smoother run for themselves). I have never said anything to people that do it, I just make sure to be off work on patch day so I can run it all in the first 12 hours.

I make it a personal policy to not explain anything the 1st week lol. If they couldn't be bothered to run it before then, they can get their own friends/FC together to do their blind runs.

Also I couldn't be sure by your original post, but if it's normal mode none of them are actually hard enough that someone with basic competence can't figure it out in time.

And yes, without a way to distinguish tone, I can see how the things you said came across as overly-aggressive to them. The /tell harassment was out of order though. You really should reconsider reporting them, I'm sure more sensitive souls would thank you later. It's one thing disagreeing with someone's dungeon/raid etiquette, it's another to go out of their way to be intentionally antagonistic.

[Fawkes]

It's fine to go in blind for a dungeon, but something like Kefka where you have tells for attacks happening outside the arena where people might not even be able to see depending on how they keep their camera oriented doesn't seem like a great time.

In my experience it's much easier to learn mechanics as a healer, and these fights are group efforts, so if your healer tells you "this is what's killing you, please avoid it" it should not be considered a 'spoiler'. If you really want to figure things out then make a PF for like minded people to join, don't hop in the DF and expect people to cater to you and waste their time, while you learn what to do for yourself by sitting there dead on the floor watching what everyone else is doing.

[Rokke]

It's fine to go in blind for a dungeon, but something like Kefka where you have tells for attacks happening outside the arena where people might not even be able to see depending on how they keep their camera oriented doesn't seem like a great time.

In my experience it's much easier to learn mechanics as a healer, and these fights are group efforts, so if your healer tells you "this is what's killing you, please avoid it" it should not be considered a 'spoiler'. If you really want to figure things out then make a PF for like minded people to join, don't hop in the DF and expect people to cater to you and waste their time, while you learn what to do for yourself by sitting there dead on the floor watching what everyone else is doing.

We are less than 48 hours into 4.2. You shouldn't need to create a PF to go in blind for learning the 8 man normal mode.