These warrior changes are great

[MagiusNecros]

People complaining how WAR has always been OP seem to be forgetting that until a few months ago, Paladins were clearly better than both tanks. The fact that Warriors are doing a bit more damage does not mean they are overpowered.

Hey man WAR has a AoE skill called Overpower. Come now. WAR was already OP.

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Gonna have to agree keep DRK in DRK oriented topics. Don't make other DRK's look as bad as the class is thanks.

[Claire_Pendragon]

WAR in 2.0 was definitely weaker than its 2.1 counterpart, but it was still able to do the content, like PLD could do HW, and DRK can do SB.
Coils didnt have tank busters u would need to use a CD on. You would use Inner Beast to heal the damage back, so TBs werent really a threat, where as PLD didnt have a CD to use for every "tank buster" twintania used. PLD woudl run out of mitigation options waitingf or stuff to come off CD, where as WAR had inner beast still ready.
WAR was already the better tank technically, but it was FAR harder to use the WAR< and PLD was the easier.

EDIT: Forgot that Storms Path lowered a targets damage by 10%, which was in 2.0, and a way to help the WAR survive "tank busters" back then.

It wasnt until people did solo PLD tanking on the dreadnaughts, that SE said, oh, we F'ed up, ok, NOW we need to give Holmgang, and mitigation to WAR, so WAR can solo tank dreadnaughts. (As PLD rfelied solely on Hallowed Ground to survive it. Not its sustainability.)

Plus WAR could solo almost any deungeon boss with its insane healing, which was FAR greater than its healing in HW.
Plenty of times my healers and DPS were dead, and i just kept healing back to full HP with inner beast.

(No one here seems to talk about how broken and amazing MRD/WAR were in 1.0 as well lol. Defender 2 was insaine, where as sentinel was only needed once Ifrit came out, but you would still rather a WAR to tank. Same with power leveling/trash mobs, and all other endgame content. WAR was just too good in DPS, survivability, and threat. And that PLD combo, where u need to be on a mobs flank to combo... wtf SE lol... MRD/WAR were always the favorite)

[Reynhart]

WAR in 2.0 was definitely weaker than its 2.1 counterpart, but it was still able to do the content, like PLD could do HW, and DRK can do SB.

Wrong, WAR wasn't able to tank Twintania.

Coils didnt have tank busters u would need to use a CD on.

Yes it did, it's called Death Sentence.

You would use Inner Beast to heal the damage back, so TBs werent really a threat

Yes, they were, especially because once you healed back the damage of Death sentence, you lost the healing bonus of Defiance, which paired with Infirmity, made WAR a wet noodle.

EDIT: Forgot that Storms Path lowered a targets damage by 10%, which was in 2.0, and a way to help the WAR survive "tank busters" back then.

No, it was in 2.1. In 2.0, WAR had no damage reduction skill. Holmgang didn't even prevent you to die.

[Claire_Pendragon]

counter

WAR did tank Twintania, as I remember evidence being proven back in 2.0 it could, as WARs were defending their ability to tank her.
Death Sentance could be survived w/o a CD, so imo, I barely call that a tank buster. (Thats why I put it in quotes)
(And PLDs did NOT have a CD for every Death Sentance, it was impossible w/o how often she used that attack. They can survive the attack, but were likely to die right after the attack.)

The amount of HP healed was to make up for the lack of bonus healing, though of course, her next attacks werent so bad, but were definitely easier on a PLD than WAR. Damage in general was more middle ground, rather than the low dmg, mixed with high spike dmg of current endgame.

I'm struggling to find information on Storms Path from 2.0, but I remember plenty of arguments of what should WAR do as OT, which included the idea of alternating between Path and Eye, when not MTing. (Instead of BB for the higher DPS)
Path did offer support to the rest of the group, but if it wasnt -10% dmg, I'm fairly sure it helpped do something to lower dmg, otherwise it had no use.
(Mainly because WAR didnt use "stances" the same way PLD did, since Eye was its DPS stance, and Path was its Tank stance in concept.)

EDIT: Struggling to find the old conversations after all these years, but I'm fairly sure tank swapping didnt really pick up in popularity till 2.1, and even then WAR was even better at it for the obvious -20% dmg taken, but yeah trying to find anything from 2.0 is hard, as most stuff is 2.1 or older.

[Xenosan]

Darklight geared WAR just couldn't survive Twintania. At i80 their kit was more effective I imagine, but at Darklight gear tier PLD/PLD was just so much safer. there was also TW/HG to cheese divebombs & snakes. Devs confessed they didn't expect people to clear T5 until i80 was released. But PLD/PLD let it happen before.

I liked the HP manipulation of 2.0 WAR too, but it was too ilvl dependent.

[Rasikko]

I think it says something when folks are reminiscing over patches long past.

[Aana]

WAR did tank Twintania, as I remember evidence being proven back in 2.0 it could, as WARs were defending their ability to tank her.
Death Sentance could be survived w/o a CD, so imo, I barely call that a tank buster. (Thats why I put it in quotes)
(And PLDs did NOT have a CD for every Death Sentance, it was impossible w/o how often she used that attack. They can survive the attack, but were likely to die right after the attack.)

The amount of HP healed was to make up for the lack of bonus healing, though of course, her next attacks werent so bad, but were definitely easier on a PLD than WAR. Damage in general was more middle ground, rather than the low dmg, mixed with high spike dmg of current endgame.

I'm struggling to find information on Storms Path from 2.0, but I remember plenty of arguments of what should WAR do as OT, which included the idea of alternating between Path and Eye, when not MTing. (Instead of BB for the higher DPS)
Path did offer support to the rest of the group, but if it wasnt -10% dmg, I'm fairly sure it helpped do something to lower dmg, otherwise it had no use.
(Mainly because WAR didnt use "stances" the same way PLD did, since Eye was its DPS stance, and Path was its Tank stance in concept.)

EDIT: Struggling to find the old conversations after all these years, but I'm fairly sure tank swapping didnt really pick up in popularity till 2.1, and even then WAR was even better at it for the obvious -20% dmg taken, but yeah trying to find anything from 2.0 is hard, as most stuff is 2.1 or older.

Pld didn't have a CD for every death sentence. But it did have a tank stance that fully mitigated and shield for all of them and CDs for most of them besides.

I was there at 2.0. On war. Tanking 1st coil. Path just healed HP. IB only healed HP. Defiance was a permanent ToB. Bonus healing per stack of wrath. Max wrath = current defiance. Using IB removed that. No passive parry bonus. Vengence didn't mitigate any damage. Holmgang wasn't an immunity, just a mutual root. IB had no mitigation. War had no mitigation except foresight.

The only way war survived was by standing there, and waiting for the entire rest of the party to virus, stoneskin, adlo etc and you had to have lv 90 gear for vit. The damn snake in T1 was REALLY rough as a darklight war. I just stood their and hoped my sch had enough lustrates while the pld was over their with sentinel and hallowed so his assigned healer could spend more time helping me with my snake.

War in 2.0 had virtually no mitigation whatsoever. Stacking every party buff/debuff in the game on you to survive ONE death sentence doesn't make it ok while pld just pops sentinel all by himself. 2.0 war was terribad.

FFS people played maurauder instead on a regular basis to truly make it just a blue DPS whenever possible because its tanking was crap.

War has been doing very well since 2.1. But whitewashing history does no one anygood. 2.0 was utterly terrible. It couldn't speed run in dungeons like pld, it could only tank raids in max ilvl gear with 100% party support, it was often excluded from content all together and people ran 2x pld (there was no limit gauge punishement for duplicate jobs then). This game is all about mitigation. War provided none for itself or others. The only mitigation tool it had was foresight.

[Chrono_Rising]

I agree OP. Warrior feels great in 4.2.

[Nivarea]

Warrior is simplified, but it feels great, it feels powerfull, and it's fun. I was affraid to not be very active while waiting for all IR burst windows, but it turns out that the infuriate trait make us busy. I can understand thought that some WAR main can be upset, because it's really dumbed down from what it was in 4.1 (that was one of my problem with 4.X DRK), but this WAR is good in its own way. It might be Op, but I'm waiting for a verification by the numbers. ^^

I hope they'll trat DRK problem now that the job seems to flow very well. =)

[Aana]

On topic,

It still just feels weird to play. Like I'm cheating. I had 2 dps and a healer with 310 weapons/gear in my 1st hells lid dungeon. Steel cyclone x8 on pulls is straight up retarded. They all got hit by everything on final boss and died leaving me at 30% HP and boss with 15% left. Oh no what will I do! DHCrit IBx5 of course! Then unchained for damage after. 100% HP. Pop more CDs. Still have another IB and infuriate up. HP drops. equal. More IBs. TLDR: Solod easily.

The defensive capabilities of new war are really stupid. Any defiance play seems utterly silly. Full time defiance, drop for 15 sec, drop 8 FCs. Defiance back. Unchained. I'm still in the process of re-optimizing my gear for all this, so it will improve greatly in short order with both new gear and improving optimization simultaneously.

I wouldn't say it feels good. Its feels absurd or surreal.

I'm in the game to optimize what I have to work with so Ill optimize it as I always have. Do the best with what you have in 2.0 or 4.2. My mindset hasn't changed but boy has war been all over the map over the years. This is one of the more ridiculous periods. Its practically comical how well a defensively played war does. Pure offensive hasn't changed very dramatically, but good lord defiance play is stupid cray now.