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  1. #1
    Player
    Transient_Shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    638
    Character
    Flutter Butter
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90

    Can we let shields stack?

    So I was running the Jade Stoa when I noticed that both Galvanize and Divine Benison could stack. Now this really rustled my jimmies. Why because for the longest time SE refused to let shields of sch, and ast stack period. But now whm gets a shield and it stacks with everything except another Divine Benison.

    Square can you make up your bloody mind? Ill admit it this time I'm pretty damned salty. Regen spells can stack for days but god forbid a shield get a stack. It's a double standard and needs to stop. It hinders the synergy of mitigation classes and it has NO mechanical reason to exist since every other healing spell in ast and whm kits stack! hell even chocobo healing stacks.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Ferth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,329
    Character
    Ferth Fontaine
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Divine Benison interacts with shields from SCH and AST the way stoneskin used to. This is nothing new or out of the ordinary.
    (14)

  3. #3
    Player
    Tridus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    The Goblet
    Posts
    1,510
    Character
    Cecelia Stormfeather
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow View Post
    It hinders the synergy of mitigation classes and it has NO mechanical reason to exist
    Divine Benison can only be on one person every 24 seconds, at best. Being able to stack shields on an entire party means significantly more damage mitigation. Shields can do something that HoTs can't: cause someone to survive an attack that would have otherwise killed them.

    That is why shields don't stack.
    (27)
    Survivor of Housing Savage 2018.
    Discord: Tridus#2642

  4. #4
    Player
    Kurando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,192
    Character
    Leon Reddas
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 77
    Having both an AST and SCH shield active would be OP in any instance, as losing one shield still means there is another one right behind it, kinda defeats the need of ever having Regen honestly.

    However the only thing that maybe worth adjusting is allowing a shield with the highest HP restored amount to stay active even if another one is tried to be casted over it. For example a crit Galvanize shouldn't get overwritten by a weaker AST shield, so the stronger one should stay active until it is destroyed. I suppose this would be rare as any SCH/AST pair shouldn't be overwriting each others shields but it can still be annoying, especially in 24man situations when someone from another alliance gets involved and sabotages your buffs.
    (9)

  5. #5
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,706
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Tank shields stacking as is is pretty OP. But they're on a CD, at least.

    Letting on demand GCD shields stack would be very very broken.
    (8)

  6. #6
    Player
    zuzu-bq's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    901
    Character
    Zuzu Belloq
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    They can't let all possible shields stack or else you can simply cheese a lot of stuff by taking 0 damage. Essentially breaking the game in some aspects.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Sylvain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,491
    Character
    Sylvestre Solscribe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    You can't make shields stack (especially aoe) for a very and simple good reason, it highly raise effective hp. One of the difficulty of new savage content is to survive burst (tank or aoe or transition). This is why worldfirst often meld vitality, because it raises their hp by the tiny bit needed to survive better
    By allowing sheild to stack you can effectively negate many mechanics such as tank buster.
    Same goes for the weakness debuff, they basically are a death sentence if you don't have enough gear to mitigate, allow shields to stack and weakness debuff would be much less of a threat.

    The comparison between Hot is bad because hot don't prevent death.
    Let say you have 50k hp, you could have 7 WHM hots, if the boss does 50 001 dmg in one hit. You die
    If you have a shield absorbing 2 dmg, you survive.

    Divine is a special case because it's a single target skill that has a cd. If I'm right TBN also stack too.

    If you think double hots is so great, just do something like Shinryu with min ilv with WHM in diurnal stance, tell me how it goes and how open those stacking hots were (small hint, without perfect use of tank aoe mitigation and AST bubble, all your squishes will die)
    (5)
    Last edited by Sylvain; 02-16-2018 at 08:28 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    loreleidiangelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,731
    Character
    Lorelei Diangelo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 74
    Tbh this is why shields in general are a concept that is difficult as hell to balance and why I cringe seeing how mandatory they are for Savage content, because it guarantees a raid spot for this one particular healing mechanic alone that SE will be forced to constantly incorporate into new jobs so that SCH isn't a "must-take" for raids. Making raid content require shields severely limits potential healer design going forward, tbh. Disc Priests are no more mandatory for raid prog than Holy Priest despite Disc having shields as their primary mech - it's because Disc shields in a way compensate for their slightly poorer HP recovery - if you didn't prevent the damage as Disc, it's harder to get those bars back up. Meanwhile SCH just rips a Lustrate or Indom.

    Now, I don't expect SCH's recovery tools to be diminished at any point in the future, but I'd love to see their shields made a little less "requisite" for progging Savage content, even at min item level. In my ideal world though SCH's single-target shields would be beefed up a bit, making them great tank babysitters but they'd either lose their AOE shielding/some really strong recovery stuff like Indom or it wouldn't be required to survive big raid busters like Almagest at min ilevel, opening the door for future recovery-based/AOE-oriented healers to be created without worrying about "we don't have enough shield healers to compete with SCH's raid spot".

    tl;dr binary pass/fail AOE raid damage present in virtually every endgame raid boss thus far means SE always has to make new healers with SCH's shielding in mind, severely limiting new potential healing design, and I dislike that immensely.
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    VanilleFang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,655
    Character
    Estellise Valesti
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    I agree with what pretty much everyone else has said. Having AST and SCH shields stack would be broken. It wouldn't only make WHM obsolete but it would also make fights even easier.
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    Ametrine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,476
    Character
    Diantha Sunstone
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    It would also severely twist the AST/AST sect sharing issue. Someone has to go Diurnal.

    Really, everyone would start running SCH/SCH comps. It would be a mess.
    (1)

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