The new Expanded Inventory View design

[Vstarstruck]

Alright. Wasn't seeing it your way. Sounded rude. If you truly think replying the way that people are is what will get it done, I stand to benefit as much as the next person.

Does that mean you are going to apologize to me now and stop acting so hostile? You never thought you, your self is sounding rude to others? If you really want to better yourself in how you communicate, it is a good idea to see how others may view you. To me yu are just blindly white knighting without a cause, and all that does is impede progress in getting feedback to the development.

[BillyKaplan]

Sounded rude.

Anything that isn't pure praise will sound rude to someone. But users have the right to be dissatisfied with a change, and frustrated with the cause when that cause has been a recurring thorn in the game's collective side yet continues to go unaddressed. It's not rude to bring it up in the official forums so long as everyone minds their tongue and for the most part, they have.

If you truly think replying the way that people are

HOW did people reply, truly? Because I just went over the thread in its entirety ever since we got the representative response in here, and while Vstarstruck was harsh, they too adhered to the general form of replies: understand where SE's coming from (1.0 code and a rush to bring out 2.0), show a bit of sympathy maybe, but ultimately call SE out on how this will only continue to cause issues and bringing up importance to SE fixing their broken infrastructure. And this is an objective fact that keeps proving itself every single time they try to do anything, all the more when they don't have the PS3 limitations excuse to hide behind anymore.
The only one I've seen getting nasty here so far was actually you.

[Mahrze]

A lot? I see maybe 3 people hinting they have some experience including you. The rest have been comments along the lines of "yeah, but fix everything"

I highly doubt the reason for the lack of rework is it hasn't been proposed or thought of. I'm not debating the need, they WILL eventually bump up against the limits of this older, complex, garbage system in a very hard way (if not already), but implying they're not aware of this is unnecessary. I bet the guys who work on this daily would give their left eyes to scrap or rebuild some of the systems they have to work with everyday, but their job isn't to set policy. It's to do what the higher ups say with what they're given. Someone who comes in here to say "here's why this was done" doesn't need the response of "your work wasn't wanted or needed, you should have been doing.."

Sorry but this is where I call you out on the white knight

This

and a lot of people, myself included, have the relevant professional experience to weigh in on this.

Does not translate to:

A lot? I see maybe 3 people hinting they have some experience including you. The rest have been comments along the lines of "yeah, but fix everything"

He's mentioning that there are plenty of people who work in programming that can see this same thing. I know plenty of people who work as programmers who have called code issue since 2.0. They have reached an impasse. They have reached the end of the line when they can't implement anything due to old code they need to restructure. There is always something that is a limitation, used to be PS3, now it's old 32 bit, tomorrow they will say PS4, and if they add the switch to the combo it'll be the scapegoat.

Every potentially good improvement is marred by a limitation which is rather unacceptable under any standards when they have paying customers. I'd not care if it was a F2P but when this company charges potentially millions a month, I expect to see the money we pay be properly used.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

And that's why no one is implying this. Bringing it up that it's important and that they should prioritize it doesn't mean we think they don't know. Those of us with experience in the field know that they know better than anyone how bad it really is and that they puke blood every single day making the game work as well as it does in the first place. But if they won't know it's as important to us as it is to them, they'll keep prioritizing other things. I've been in that mess before where infrastructure revamps were postponed because of new features and only when the clients settled down we could do the important work. So this is us, telling them, as much as the people in this thread can, "it's ok. Go for it. It's important to us too."
....

I have to echo this statement.

I keep seeing places where some limitation or another is hampering what the devs want to do with the game that I feel there needs to be some time spent to improve the underlying issues.



I can see that this would probably impact content releases, and that that wouldn't sit well with some.

But, you can only get so far treating the symptoms, the core issue will need to be resolved.

[Kewitt]

I personally wouldn't care how much screen releatestate it takes. I would like to have all my invantoy open at once.
But please just put key items and Crystals in one.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm a software designer (not MMO) myself dealing with legacy code and bad database design. I can completely understand the price paid by technical debt. However, the more egregious error here is the lack of communication. They can't just spring changes like this on the community. The game needs test servers or at the very least to warn us about something like this in the future. The patch notes mentioned the grid change, but NOT the reorganization of the sections on tabs. I think a lot of people would feel a lot less sucker punched if they knew this was coming.

[Rufalus]

That's a baseless assumption given most limitations are born out of how badly the code is written

My bad, should have used the word 'may' then instead of sounding absolute. But we'd also have to make assumptions to say the opposite, that their code is so inefficient that a rebuild from the ground up would see enough improvement to warrant the cost of doing so. Rebuilding systems in an mmo of course a very large-scale project not to be taken lightly and comes with associated risk and some downtime to the service they provide players. Personally I'm just confident in the decision-making of this dev team. I think they are very good based on what they've accomplished which I see as superior in most ways to other games on the market and that's why I'm still here. Their level of communication with the players such as the dev reply in this thread is something I also value.

[Krotoan]

Anything that isn't pure praise will sound rude to someone. It's not rude to bring it up in the official forums so long as everyone minds their tongue and for the most part, they have.

HOW did people reply, truly? Because I just went over the thread in its entirety ever since we got the representative response in here, and while Vstarstruck was harsh, they too adhered to the general form of replies: understand where SE's coming from (1.0 code and a rush to bring out 2.0), show a bit of sympathy maybe, but ultimately call SE out on how this will only continue to cause issues and bringing up importance to SE fixing their broken infrastructure. And this is an objective fact that keeps proving itself every single time they try to do anything, all the more when they don't have the PS3 limitations excuse to hide behind anymore.
The only one I've seen getting nasty here so far was actually you.

If you think I'm being "nasty" then you're not reading carefully.

HAA!!!

PC limitiations confirmed! ^___________________^

unnecessary and noncontributory.

That wall of text though... it's blowing my mind that the underlying code is so terrible. Also, regardless of the reasoning I still hate, loathe and despise the new "expanded" view. It's not even remotely expanded at all.

Put everything on a single plane and get rid of the 2 extra key items bags. Like seriously, why would we ever need that many key items. Actually, better yet, turn them into additional bag slots instead since they're already there.

"regardless of the reasoning..." = don't care what you said, then additional paragraph showing they don't understand the change.

Making a design decision due to lack of resources is sad

Calling the dev team "sad"

If you think Vstarstruck is a reasonable voice I'm probably going to have to ignore you too since all they've been doing is going thread to thread with venom for anyone who disagrees and badly spelled , poorly thought out arguments that are parroted from other people.

[BillyKaplan]

unnecessary and noncontributory.

Like the vast majority of posts on this forum, you mean? At least that one was entertaining.

"regardless of the reasoning..." = don't care what you said, then additional paragraph showing they don't understand the change.

You're picking on nothing. First, they acknowledge that the situation sucks from a coding perspective. But the fact the devs had a reason to make that change doesn't stop people from hating on it, nor should it because it's unrelated. The devs doing something doesn't mean we need to accept it and feel good about it, which is where you're again going into white knight territory.

Calling the dev team "sad"

No, they called the situation sad, maybe you're the one who's not reading carefully. As someone who's worked with impossible systems before, where I had to write code I wasn't satisfied with because there was a deadline coming and not enough time to do it the right way, yeah, it's a sad situation to be in, as basically every single person in this thread has acknowledged in regards to the 1.0 legacy code. It doesn't mean we have to accept it.

The devs are not infallible. People are not obligated to approve of what they do. And you're certainly not a community moderator to be tearing into basically every person in this thread for the crime of not having the same opinion as yours.

[Krotoan]

Sorry but this is where I call you out on the white knight

This

Does not translate to:

He's mentioning that there are plenty of people who work in programming that can see this same thing. I know plenty of people who work as programmers who have called code issue since 2.0. They have reached an impasse. They have reached the end of the line when they can't implement anything due to old code they need to restructure. There is always something that is a limitation, used to be PS3, now it's old 32 bit, tomorrow they will say PS4, and if they add the switch to the combo it'll be the scapegoat.

Every potentially good improvement is marred by a limitation which is rather unacceptable under any standards when they have paying customers. I'd not care if it was a F2P but when this company charges potentially millions a month, I expect to see the money we pay be properly used.

White knighting is jumping to the defense of someone (it used to be of a female) with no reason or request and taking an unreasonably paragon-like view of the subject while lambasting any who would propose any negative quality of said target.

what does any of what you've quoted me saying apply to white knighting?
I was referring to the thread, not the forum.

"Properly used". Very situational term. Properly in your eyes? You who personally have no stake except the characters you play and the time you spend. Properly in the company's eyes is something entirely different. Morally? Obligatorily? I'm pretty sure as we owe them nothing, they owe you nothing.
Unacceptable. To you. Great. I won't/can't stop you from complaining. But I'm sure as shaving cream going to state what I think as well.

White knighting is a go to insult for anyone who dares to say anything positive, suggest reasonable responses or advise non-aggression against the hated "company" .

SE is a company and I owe them no loyalty. When their game ceases to amuse me I will leave with no fanfare or declaration. If it improves later I may return. Or it may just die. Bummer, there will be many other games and they will likely be leagues ahead in terms of convenience and features. Dismissing opposing criticisms as "white knighting" all the time is your loss.

The devs are not infallible. People are not obligated to approve of what they do. And you're certainly not a community moderator to be tearing into basically every person in this thread for the crime of not having the same opinion as yours.

You asked for examples. I gave them. I wasn't naming names to begin with.

I never said the devs were infallible. Now you're just starting arguments. I told you I wasn't going to argue against replying to dev comments with other requests and have stopped. I'm not going to argue personal stances with you.

have fun being you.