This MSQ change makes nobody happy.

[Transient_Shadow]

guess that means I'm the odd ball out. I'm very happy with this change since older players can't ruin msq for newer players the way they did for me way back when. I'm actually planning on re doing it now just to experience it uninterupted

[Melichoir]

The real danger is that people will take that advice and newbies will wait 2 hours to complete it.



Actually, the roulette was added precisely to entice veteran players to run it, because newbies couldn't get groups reliably for it. The roulette's rewards are aimed squarely at us, not new players.

No, the roulettes exist to help lower players clear content. Meaning, it was made so new players can experience the content without terrible wait times by rewarding vet players for their time. Not so Vets can get easy rewards. Thats why its OPTIONAL. As a vet player, youre not obligated to participate. But Im pretty confident that therell be plenty of older vets who wont care and will do it.


And remember, this change only occured because some vets threw a whole lot of shade at new players for having the audacity of enjoying the game and seeing what it has to offer. They took the attitude that new players enjoying the content was an inconvenience to their need to speed run everything. They took the roulette as a sign it was designed for them, and not as a means to help new players.

Consider some of the crap vets say"

"Imma Kick you for viewing the cutscenes."
"Just watch them later, Im in a rush."
"*spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler* There you know the plot, now hurry up."

Its as if the fact that new players want to enjoy the game is a problem for vets. Its not "Im a vet player and Imma do this for the rewards, but understand that new players might watn to see stuff and thats fine". No, its "Im a vet, and these damned noobs are a hindrance to me getting quick exp and tomestones. Cant they just F- off? What inconveniences."

[Jijifli]

Snip

Tridus isn't wrong. The roulette WAS made to entice people who already did the dungeons to go again, because way back then the roulette didn't exist and people were upset that Castrum and Praetorium would not pop.

Also, saying this was added because vets were "mean to newbies" is over the top, least from my experience. I have NEVER seen ANYONE get at a new player in the instance. The only time anyone made any amount of deal about the cutscenes was someone acting high and mighty "defending" the newbie who couldn't care less. We let them watch it because them falling behind usually has 0 impact on the dungeon speed.

And now? I have no reason to go in there. At all. Poetics are common. I've seen the cutscenes. I can get more exp per minute doing my on level dungeon. This hurts the queue times. By how much? Who knows? But you wanna know what puts me off of a story more than people going ahead of me? Having to wait a long time to see it. I skipped everything after Cold Steel's issue. I barely cared because I had to wait so long to do it. I'd rather see the cutscenes and do nothing than never see it at all.

But like you said, it's optional, and people'll spend their time elsewhere. Queue already looked long enough as it was in 4.1 (12 minute Castrum with a tank.)

[Melichoir]

Tridus isn't wrong. The roulette WAS made to entice people who already did the dungeons to go again, because way back then the roulette didn't exist and people were upset that Castrum and Praetorium would not pop.

Also, saying this was added because vets were "mean to newbies" is over the top, least from my experience. I have NEVER seen ANYONE get at a new player in the instance. The only time anyone made any amount of deal about the cutscenes was someone acting high and mighty "defending" the newbie who couldn't care less. We let them watch it because them falling behind usually has 0 impact on the dungeon speed.

And now? I have no reason to go in there. At all. Poetics are common. I've seen the cutscenes. I can get more exp per minute doing my on level dungeon. This hurts the queue times. By how much? Who knows? But you wanna know what puts me off of a story more than people going ahead of me? Having to wait a long time to see it. I skipped everything after Cold Steel's issue. I barely cared because I had to wait so long to do it. I'd rather see the cutscenes and do nothing than never see it at all.

But like you said, it's optional, and people'll spend their time elsewhere. Queue already looked long enough as it was in 4.1 (12 minute Castrum with a tank.)

Youre not understanding the context, and thats probably my fault.

SE didnt walk into a developers meeting and say "Hey, lets create a new roulette to reward people who have already cleared content by having them clear content again for funsies!"

No, they looked at an issue of new players having longer wait times and said "How do we solve this issue? Well, we could get vets to run it again, and compensate them for their time."

The roulette exists as a means to help new players experience content by rewarding veteran players for giving up their time and run old content again. Not as a means to give older players rewards by doing things that happen to benefit new players.

Thats a subtle difference, but it makes teh world of a difference. Because the issue that arose was some Vets would start talking mad crap or giving people crap cause the new players want to actually experience the game and content, and that was an inconvenience to the Vets who were there just for rewards and only the rewards. They took something that was a means to help new players and decided that it was more about them getting quick exp and free tomestones than it was about them acknowledging theyd be doing this and getting compensated for it for helping new players.

Ive seen it plenty myself. Ill speed run it myself, and when someone asks to watch the cutscenes, I say sure, but theres always someone who does one of those things. Is it every run? No. Probably 1 every 4 or so runs thatll occur. But thats still denying new players the ability to see the content as it is a part of the game. If it werent about that, they would not have implemented this change.

As for queue times, Im sure theyll take a hit, and Im sure that if its a big enough issue that SE will adjust the rewards for it. So Im not worried. Youll probably see a steep increase in rewards for vets if the queue times spike drastically by 4.25, if not sooner. But the complaint from vets that "this sucks for them!" only illustrates how they dont understand it isnt about them.

[Talraen]

Also, saying this was added because vets were "mean to newbies" is over the top, least from my experience. I have NEVER seen ANYONE get at a new player in the instance. The only time anyone made any amount of deal about the cutscenes was someone acting high and mighty "defending" the newbie who couldn't care less. We let them watch it because them falling behind usually has 0 impact on the dungeon speed.

I've seen people give newbies a hard time for wanting to watch cutscenes. Also I'm guessing many, many new players wanted to watch cutscenes but didn't want to say so because they didn't want to be yelled at, or because they were already told not to bother because no one would let them watch the cutscenes

And now? I have no reason to go in there. At all. Poetics are common. I've seen the cutscenes. I can get more exp per minute doing my on level dungeon.

All of these things were true before 4.2. The exp per minute was never particularly good in Main Story Roulette, on-level dungeon was always a better rate, and also allowed you to make better use of experiences bonuses (e.g., from your FC or squadron manuals).

The only difference is now a player who actually wants to see the final story sequence of a Final Fantasy game can do so without having to organize their friends into letting them. Who loses, exactly?

[Jijifli]

I've seen people give newbies a hard time for wanting to watch cutscenes. Also I'm guessing many, many new players wanted to watch cutscenes but didn't want to say so because they didn't want to be yelled at, or because they were already told not to bother because no one would let them watch the cutscenes

Our experiences are different then. Only twice have I seen aggressiveness in MS roulette. Both times were at me, and both times I was tank, and both times it was not the new person, but someone else wanting to just let me know, "how much of a **** I am for not waiting," as the second person was.

All of these things were true before 4.2. The exp per minute was never particularly good in Main Story Roulette, on-level dungeon was always a better rate, and also allowed you to make better use of experiences bonuses (e.g., from your FC or squadron manuals).

The only difference is now a player who actually wants to see the final story sequence of a Final Fantasy game can do so without having to organize their friends into letting them. Who loses, exactly?

Yes, it was crap before still. But because it was quick, if I chose to level an alt I'd still do it on the alt to get good gear quick. I don't even WANT to level another character to that.

And honestly, how long have Castrum and Praetorium been out? How long has this been an issue? Was this really the best idea they could get after years of it, knowing the reason why they're bad is because they have 50 cutscenes in them?

[Talraen]

And honestly, how long have Castrum and Praetorium been out? How long has this been an issue? Was this really the best idea they could get after years of it, knowing the reason why they're bad is because they have 50 cutscenes in them?

Can't argue with you there. They made this bed, and while I appreciate that they haven't made the same mistake again, this is hardly a solution.