The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Miracle_Diva]

This reminds me of times in Lineage2 where you spent hours to kill an epic boss. No thanks.
You want a clear? Do your job. No one is asking you to be 2%.
No enrage timer means that some people would just sit there and drink tea\watch Netflix while lazy pushing buttons. Doesn't sound good to me.

[Soupa]

Hey look another thread that didn’t read the patch notes carefully. we won’t know how the new WAR plays till release due to multiple changes to shared recast timers, multiplier changes, and cooldown reduction. Also enrage timers are necessary. Thread should be changed to “The time has come for OP to rethink their opinion.”

[Chrono_Rising]

The upcoming WAR nerfs have brought out the usual boilerplate from the peanut galleries;

You're right, it is. And I too am tired of the "dumbing down" that has occurred. Yet here we are, with the WAR changes coming, and more people praising them on the tank forums than not, calling it an increase in DPS because of "gained Fell Cleaves" while completely ignoring a loss in AA DPS and the fact that the entire class is now a faceroll when it comes to damage.

Quor, I see your argument failed to gain traction in the tank subforum so you are trying to get this misinformation to spread here. Let me summarize the responses on the tank subforum here: The initial Bok analysis is deeply flawed, he produced his 5% nerf by only taking into account the nerfs in his math, 5% is the effect of the change without including the new burst window and additional Fell Cleaves from not spending gauge and being able to take advantage of the infuriate trait.

Multiple people have worked on multiple spreadsheets and they all come to same conclusions, despite the net loss on the main combos and autoattacks and even the oGCD's the new warrior burst window and additional gauge should theoretically increase warrior dps above what warriors are currently pulling independent of ilvl. This may not be the playstyle people want, but it is likely not a nerf in damage, infact it is likely a buff or at least neutral.

If you don't believe the math and excel spreadsheets, which, despite what you seem to think, do take into account warrior's self buffing, raid buffs, and the reduction of the eye buff on things like autoattacks, then I suggest waiting for the content to release so that you can put it into practice rather than spreading misinformation here and trying to nuke enrage timers. And by the way, getting rid of enrage timers will do nothing to the dps meta of this game because believe it or not people actually enjoy speed running content for a reason, and its not for meeting enrage timers at this point. Who wants to run dungeons for 60 minutes? Who wants to kill neo ex death with autoattacks and be in the instance for 24 hours?

[NephthysVasudan]

@OP

PFFFTHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahaha*walks away*

(In case you don't know how to read - "No")

[Airget]

I don't think anyone wants to spend an hour in a fight. That's what rage timers are for, at least I think so. Boss: Taking too long? Ok folks, time to wipe.

It would also make the skill gap between players worse because even if 6/8 players didn't have proper gear, as long as those 6 just kept at it for another 10 minutes you win the fight. The point of enrage timers is to make sure everyone is properly geared for the fight otherwise any fight could easily be won.

[Mejingjard]

rabanastres first boss for example has dps checks but they're ridiculous. half the alliance can be dead and still clear the dps check. I think that's a real problem that needs to be addressed. same is true in a lot of other content. enrages could easily be scrapped if those checks were tuned up a bit and occurred more often.

They are often succeeded because you have some very potent players that can fastly react and go kill other alliances "personnal" dps checks. Last time I went in Rabanastre, 2 out of the 3 alliances were unable to kill their sand balls in time on Hashmal. Whereas my team had it done in a blink. Once 2 of our dps went helping on the other orbs, things went OK.
The probleme with personnal dps is that again, good players can and will cover for a lack in order to not waste everyone time.

An enrage is there to ensure EVERYONE is doing his job.
Besides, the few bosses having enrage on this game are fairly loose on them. Exept if you are having really really bad dps, it will often be fine.
when Alexander Creator was relevant, A9s had something like 9-10 min enrage timer. With practice, my static could kill it in 4'30. Best team I saw could clear it in like 2'30 or something. Most of the fight can be cleared with more than 1 or 2 min left before an enrage.

What they should do is spread theses enrage on the whole lvling experience, starting very large, then reducing step by step that timer, to match with the requiered lvl of skill expected at this point.
I can have some exemple : Alte Roite normal mode, a very easy fight with no enrage. I once did one that lasted for more that 15 min. Some will tell : no big deal it has been completed anyway. Yes it has been. Does it made me and surely some other wants to get out of here, yes. Does the relatively bad dps here realised they were really sub par ? No. Frustration on the more than average players, no learning from the bad ones.

Now apply that to the large numbers of players forced to group in random. Happily, most of the time groups are most than OK, due to a few very good players. I was talking about my rabanastre run, I'll add a bit to that anecdote :
I was playing Summoner, a fresh one that just reached lvl 70 a couple of min before. And after a short try on a dummy to see the 70 skill, i went in. I was for the whole run among the top 5 dps. With 310 geat bought in order to be able to enter. On 15 dps, 10 were dealing sub part damage, some were even under the main tank. The top 3 dps made up more than all those 10 dps (if I remeber correctly : first was a BLM sitting around 5k, then a bard and a sam where fighting over the 2d place around 4,5k. 4th and 5th we were around 3k5 and 4k. Then everyone else was under 1500 dps. Personnal dps were succeeded because the good dps here were way ahead of the others and had the reactivity to spread among the teams to equalize damages and cover for 2/3 of the raid.

If you realise that if all 15 dps were playing decently, I'm not talking about top lvl like the BLM here, but more something around 3,5-4k dps, you would not even worry about any enrage timer at all. Most of the boss fights are timed around 3 to 5 min exept for savage and ex. (more around 9 to 13 min in average). To put it in raw numbers, a typical 24 man boss is, let's say, 5 minutes. Let's take for exemple that group I had in rabanastre. on one side, the top 3 players for a total of 14k dps, then the 12 others dps + tanks and healers for around 20k. on a 5 minute fight, this is 4.2 million damage by 3 players, and 6 million by 21 players. Don't you think something is fishy here ?

Happily this was one of the slowest run I ever saw, and it happened to me only once. But here you have a perfect exemple of how huge the skill gap is.
And I am pretty confident that it would not take much to reduce it IF the devs were creating a real difficulty curve along the game. We are not talking about having everyone at 5k dps, but reducing the amount of players sitting below at least 2,5-3k dps at this point of the game (witch should be far enough to ensure pleasant runs for everyone)as this is a very easily goal to attain in term of dps.
But for this, we need a bit more enrage timer all around the place to ensure that players at lvl 70, can and will deal that "arbitrary" dps value.
We need both personnal dps to have everyone do their job as an individual, and enrage to have everyone do their job as a team.
Stop already with the nerfing of everything. Dps are the only one complaining again and again and again for having their role to fulfill.

[SilverObi]

As a gameplay mechanic, I'm not a complete fan of enrage timers but I understand why they exist in this and other games. It's about pressure pure and simple. And even though it can be stressful with that hidden clock ticking in the background, it's also exciting in the long run. In a game like this, it encourages everyone to push to their hardest each attempt and that's not a bad thing. A fight that can be tied up eternally would make me far more miserable than one that has doom inching in to get you.

[Xtrasweettea]

Let's not. Enrage timers exist for a reason.

"after 18 hours of combat members of the party started throwing up and passing out from exhaustion"
https://kotaku.com/5036371/final-fan...-hours-to-beat

Not the same thing...
When Pandemoium Warden came out, it was on purposely not meant to be beatable. PW didn't even have a loot pool upon release. When that Linkshell did the fight, they were trying something that was not doable. That is why it was 18 hours, not because lacked DPS checks.

PW has nothing to do with the lack of DPS checks...

[Vaer]

Enrage timers are a minimum standard set by the developer. You need to meet or surpass it collectively as a group to get the loot. If not, you can get better gear and it will make the checks easier as time goes on or just improving at the fight. Not to mention savage content gives gear that can last up to 6 months. Their piecemeal gear progression system would probably collapse if they removed the enrage timer. Selling runs would be easier than ever. Gear progression would become less important, since you can just deal with the hp checks by adding VIT melds since it doesn't matter how long it takes you to kill it.

They would have to rework the system for it to work. Like limiting raises so you can't just zombie every fight and have the healers carry the entire group.

[Sebazy]

PW has nothing to do with the lack of DPS checks...

Yet the thinking and methodology behind how it was tackled was exactly the same. So it's a relevant comment really.

It's no different to how I used to solo raid mobs on my Shaman in EQ, if I had the means to stop it flurrying me to death in one hit, simply Deathtouching me or steamrollering me with adds, I could kill it. It all boiled down to how long I was willing to take.