SE... please (an honest DRK).

[Kreyd]

I can already see the future as well; WAR community will complain about the changes, WAR will be buffed massively in 4.25 or 4.3 and DRK will get a 20 potency increase on Bloodspiller, or if we are super lucky, 10 potency on Dark Passenger.

I think patch 4.2 showed that they basically give a shit about complaints from the community. My only hope at this point is, that they will loose interest in kickin WAR around and start with DRK...which will probably end in a Souleater nerf, so that Bloodspiller is actually a dps gain. xD

[TouchandFeel]

I honestly don't understand why people "want HW DRK back" asides from having a severe case of nostalgia goggles.

HW DRK had a good number of problems that people didn't like, some of which are still around and people are still complaining about.
Shadow Wall being the worst of the big tank defensives, Living Dead being unnecessarily convoluted in comparison to the other tank ultimates, Unleashed and Abyssal seeming redundant, Sole Survivor being far too niche and not useful in most boss content.
All of these things existed in HW, it just happened to be that the problems with PLD in regards to job balance overshadowed any complaints about issues that DRK had.

Sure DRK got really messed up with the SB job changes; they removed far too much, left too much of the stuff that was janky or not very good and didn't add enough new good stuff to compensate for any of it. That doesn't mean that everything that was changed or added to DRK with SB is garbage and should be scrapped. TBN, ignoring arguments about DPS losses/gains, is a pretty damn cool ability. Bloodspiller and Quietus, after the MP restore effect was added, are also both welcome editions as well.

Believe me, the "HW DRK" would not nearly be as great as people may think in the environment of the game at this point. It "worked" then, mainly because of bigger issues with other jobs, but wouldn't really work so great now.

So instead of just providing feedback like "I want HW DRK back", dissect the problem. What exactly was done that makes DRK feel lacking or less fun to play now? Would reversing any of these changes actually really "fix" DRK in the ways that it needs? What other ways could the problems with DRK be addressed?

[Silver_Blade]

The problem with DRK isn't really that so much was taken away it is what was given to the other tanks.
WAR got a great raid cooldown and paladin got a second. WAR and PLD dps went up significantly.
DRK was given no raid buff and it's DPS is actually lower than PLD! The problem is WAR and PLD got buffed too much and DRK got nothing except DPS abilities that are weak. Right now it is a detriment to bring a DRK over a PLD or a WAR because you either lose TWO raid cooldowns and emergency healing or one 90s raid cooldown, slash debuff and some DPS.

[Mahrze]

DRK was given no raid buff

No, just stop with this inane train of thought that all tanks need a raid buff

...lost slash debuff

Wait... what?

[Ferth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...adly_designed/

That post would suggest that the warrior changes are not a nerf. Not great playstyle, but still not a nerf. I trust Emiin's analysis breaking down the warrior rotation based on the notes far more than what Bokchoy did in his post. There are multiple issues in his breakdown and should not be taken even remotely seriously.

It's only a buff if warriors can consistently get a 5th fell cleave in the inner release window. If they can't, it's a nerf.

[Silver_Blade]

If three tanks do the same DPS but two have raid cooldowns why would you take the one who doesn't?
Because that is the situation now.

[Tamerling]

The main reason people what HW DRK back is that despite the problems the job had it was much more fun to play than what we have now.

[Commander_Justitia]

The 4th fasted neo exdeath kill has a darkknight. It is 11s slower than the fastest one atm. Only like ~100people worldwide manage to get under 10min clear times. That is less than 1% of all logs.

If darkknight is so bad, how do they manage it?

I can accept skillstyle concerns, but dps wise drk is maybe statistically 5% lower than the other tanks, which got nerfed very slightly and drk buffed very very slightly. For me it works out even though it doesn't have to mean the classes are fun to play.

But balance is not about your fun factor...

DRK single target shield has a CD of 15s, there can be mechanics in future raids which make it more desirable. In old content mechanics existed that targeted random people with minitankbuster, with short time to shield both, if they would be more frequent then tbn will be nice to have.

[Silver_Blade]

They managed it by compensating for the DRK. It's that simple.
DRK can do any content but the healers will have to work harder and the DPS will have to be better to get such a time.
You can not make the claim DRK is not worse than WAR and PLD. It has less defensive CD's less overall DPS and brings no raid utility.
They can still clear the content. The group is just simply worse off than with a PLD or WAR.

[TheCount]

The 4th fasted neo exdeath kill has a darkknight. It is 11s slower than the fastest one atm. Only like ~100people worldwide manage to get under 10min clear times. That is less than 1% of all logs.

If darkknight is so bad, how do they manage it?

I can accept skillstyle concerns, but dps wise drk is maybe statistically 5% lower than the other tanks, which got nerfed very slightly and drk buffed very very slightly. For me it works out even though it doesn't have to mean the classes are fun to play.

But balance is not about your fun factor...

DRK single target shield has a CD of 15s, there can be mechanics in future raids which make it more desirable. In old content mechanics existed that targeted random people with minitankbuster, with short time to shield both, if they would be more frequent then tbn will be nice to have.

Because tanks don't count for 50% of the DPS for the fight, that's why. Your post is just..ugh. A tank can be worse than the other two and still beat all the encounters, that's hardly the point is it? THe point is that Dark Knight is flat out worse than the other two tanks in every area. It literally has no strengths because guess what, paladin took that as well now with their ability to block magic damage. They have most of their abilities stripped away since Stormblood as well.