Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Vhailor]

Preface: I want to start off by saying that I fully understand the plight new players faced in the MSQ dungeons prior to Update 4.2. I share SE's desire to address this, as should all players.

However, I feel that SE's efforts in Update 4.2 were foolish, poorly designed, and ill-timed. I'll offer a series of observations to support my position, and a set of recommendations going forward.

Observations: Having played both Castrum Meridianum and the Praetorium since these changes have been made, here are some observations.

• Forced cutscenes help improve the experience for new players, but they don't solve the problem entirely. The poor design of both Castrum and Praetorium leaves new players in a decidedly poor position, despite the changes.
  
  In Castrum, the turret sequences and general enemy-avoidance strategies are still prone to confusing new players. Because prior dungeons never featured any similar mechanics, new players are still often left wondering what's going on.
  
  In Praetorium, there are a number of issues. The teleporters early in the dungeon require each individual player to click on them, and are often used from within a pack of monsters to speed up progress. Elevators often require players to be on them when triggered a la Copperbell, a mechanic that is used sporadically and frankly wasn't very well thought-out. Finally, the Magitek armour authorization is something each individual player needs to obtain, a point left ambiguous by the dungeon. All of these poorly-designed mechanisms are prone to leaving new players confused, dead, or lost as they have to backtrack (in the case of the Magitek armour).
  
  
• The forced cutscenes introduced a new variable that wasn't controlled for, and can mess up people with slower hardware. Players on slower machines can exit cutscenes several seconds behind those on faster computers. In many cases - Nero in Praetorium being the likeliest that I saw - this can lead to people getting locked out of the battlefield if other players start in early. This is a new problem, as players could manually skip cutscenes beforehand in order to minimize the effect of slower hardware (now, slower FPS adds small delays throughout the length of the CS, not just for the load times coming out of it).
  
  
• Queue times are up, and veteran players continue to drop out. Roughly 1/3 of each party I was in verbally indicated they'd never again queue for this content. Others probably felt similarly, but didn't voice their thoughts. I know I won't queue for it again unless I happen to need Poetics tomestones quite desperately, nor will my girlfriend who I ran these observational runs with. This is a problem that will get worse, not better, unless rewards reach a point of being stupidly generous, at which point a different set of problems will be introduced.

Recommendations / TL; DR: The MSQ changes SE implemented in Update 4.2 did not effectively remedy the MSQ issues facing new players.

The changes did resolve the problem of people being pressured to skip cutscenes and being lost or verbally abused if they didn't. Nothing was done to address the other real sources of confusion and anxiety for new players. For this imperfect solution, a high cost was paid in terms of queue times, and a couple of hours was taken from everyone leveling an alt.

What I propose SE do instead, is exactly what so many on the forums have been suggesting: make both of these MSQ dungeons solo instances, complete with NPC companions. This would completely solve all problems arising from these dungeons, and will allow players to choose their own pace - either skipping the cutscenes if they don't care about the storyline, or watching them in their entirety.

I sincerely hope that SE is paying attention to the significant unhappiness this change is generating. As is often the case, they created a lazy and imperfect fix to a real problem. And, as often results from such a choice, their fix has significant and unpleasant side effects.

Fix the problem properly, already. Then nobody needs to worry about it ever again.

[Astral145]

Easy fix add a option in roulette duty that lets you choose. If you want join a party with new players that haven't been there before and watch cutscenes for the boost or not to join a party with new players in it and skip the cutscenes. How it is now won't be running it much not after seeing how low the exp. boost was and don't give a care about poetics that never use. Use to run it everyday when was on.

Well if you think about it that would be even worse for new players in the long run. These kinds of dungeons put a wrench in story progression they literally cannot go any further. If a new player has to wait hours for a queue to pop eventually they will end up quitting or it will leave a nasty stain. Instead either make it a video only with no battle play from start to end or make it a single player instance. Ultra can be optional.

[Fynlar]

Couldn't have said the above (#901) any better.

For everyone that's saying "oh, two weeks have passed and my queues are still fine, that means that this solution is Working As Intended!", let's see if the same thing is happening after a year, if that.

[BillyKaplan]

What I propose SE do instead, is exactly what so many on the forums have been suggesting: make both of these MSQ dungeons solo instances, complete with NPC companions. This would completely solve all problems arising from these dungeons, and will allow players to choose their own pace - either skipping the cutscenes if they don't care about the storyline, or watching them in their entirety.

I agree, and it will also help to solve a lot of the problems with new players having no idea what to do in there - for one, there will be no other players to click the things in their place, making them think they don't need to. Second, as we'll likely have NPCs with us, they can just throw lines up in any number of text options to guide the player, solving the rest of the issues.
Then they can also bring back the dialog option they took out >.>

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Firstly, I agree they should have been made solo instances, but SE decided that the dev resources were not worth the investment...



Allow me to speculate, and do some comparisons to another exploit in recent history.....



If players willfully exploit this in some sort of 'protest' to get SE to do something, and they do make alterations...

I don't see them going with a 'scalpel' solution.
But rather a sledgehammer.

One that's quick, easy, and light on dev resource requirements but still adresses the 'problem'.




Think back to the launch of Stormblood.
We had rampant exploitation of game mechanics to avoid the intended AFK kick system in game.

Players were not logging out of the game, and the servers reached max capacity.
Other players trying to get in the game were stuck in hours long queues because people refused to get off and open up their spot.



I personally reported many people back at that time, one of which used to be on my friends list.

I know that GM's were taking action against these players, as I could see the effects on the person on my friends list.
That person was on a crafting class, in housing area, afk for greater than 30 minutes at a time.

After my reports, sometime after I'd see them offline.



SE did not do the resource intensive fix of revamping the afk kick system.
They went with the sledgehammer approach of just booting every single person off the server at the same time of the day prior to prime time.

This rectified the issue the first day it was implemented.
Queue numbers were still large, but the queues were progressing at a good pace.

This did impact legitimate players who were not exploiting, and trying to play at the times everyone logged off, but it did fix the problem.




Now, looking to the current exploit.
Like the afk kick exploits, it goes completely against what the devs intend for the system.

If they are forced to make adjustments to it...
I don't see them doing something resource intensive as retooling the instances to solo duties. (which should have been the initial fix).

But rather, I see them going with another sledgehammer approach...
What came to my mind was something like this...



A system wherein, if a player gets disconnected from the server during these duties, that player could be removed from the party and returned to the overworld.

Like the simultanious logout measures enacted during stormblood, this will impact legitimate players, but would copmpletely solve the problem of people exploiting disconnection to skip cutscenes.



I wouldn't like to see it progress to that level.
But I don't think a proper 'fix' to these dungeons will come from players massivly exploiting the game's systems.

[Anarnee]

I would love to see them do that, because then when the bad servers cause someone to 90k they'll come here whining about how they were in queue for half an hour, DCed and then couldn't finish the dungeon they needed to progress in the main story.

Imagine the stink that would cause. We'll go from "The evil Vet players are ruining to MY experience" threads, to "I got to the end of Praetorium after an hour, and got DCed, now I have to do it again."

Not to mention. If it happens to the tanks and healers. What if the servers 90k everyone, or half the party, which I've seen happen, and then the rest of the party is stuck waiting for new tanks and heals.

This is me being a cynic though, that sounds completely ridiculous, kicks during the start of SB were a solution to a temp problem, this is something that has been a problem for years, not something that happens in waves like the launch of a new expansion.

[Vhailor]

I wouldn't like to see it progress to that level.
But I don't think a proper 'fix' to these dungeons will come from players massivly exploiting the game's systems.

I don't think the pressure here is going to come from any disconnect-related exploit; I think it'll instead come from unsustainable queue times and new players continuing to complain about other problematic aspects of the MSQ dungeons that weren't fixed (things like the atrocious Magitek armour authorization process).

SE is far more sensitive to these pressures. Indeed, it was rampant complaints by new players that prompted the changes in 4.2 to begin with. I do agree that it might not be enough for SE to commit the dev resources a proper fix demands (just look at their intransigence in regards to Glamours), but they're still worth bringing up, especially if SE's internal statistics show that these missions are contributing to people quitting FFXIV.

[Akor]

2 Hour Penalty for dropping MS Roulette if there's a new player.

Suddenly it's faster to deal with it.

Who are you anyway suggesting that? lol

[Krotoan]

Fix the problem properly, already. Then nobody needs to worry about it ever again.

All valid concerns and useful suggestions. I've said before it's unlikely they'd put in the resources to actually rework the 2.0 MSQ dungeons but this doesn't mean I don't think they should.
As you've said it's a general consensus in the forums that SE will outright refuse to do anything extensive on old content. The reasons for this have never truly been disclosed or defined other than we know they operate on "limited resources". Now whether or not that means manpower, budget, or time nobody here knows. It could even possibly just be a cop out and they have other reasons entirely they do not wish to disclose, but I'd like to think we're not there.

Lets say this current situation is because they have limited manpower as an example though. Knowing this, and knowing that they'd have to divert some of this to rework the MSQ into a solo instance with NPC's with appropriate waypoints, tactics and prompts, would you support a delay in current content to get this done? Or are you of the mind that since they're pulling in money at all , more should be spent on expanding the resources available to the FFXIV team to make this kind of change happen? As in the sacrifice here needs to be wholly absorbed by the company.

I ask this a lot because I hear many people say "oh they just need to.. " but once you propose a cost for that to happen they immediately balk and say how it "just needs to get done and should have been done long ago. ". Personally I don't think we're "owed" anything since the game has been and continues to be worth the subscription I pay, but I suppose others do not see it that way.

I'm also curious if you're on the "revert the change , too much negative impact was made" side or do you think even with the negatives at least some progress was made that warrants keeping the change around? Barring people who like to argue and flap away everything said as a labeled argument fallacy I really do want to hear an opinion. You seem like you've put a lot of thought into it, what's your take?

[Zeldert-Castiel]

I used to think that before the update, I wanted to ask my sister to be a healer with me so that if there's a new player, we can wait for them while watching tanks and DPS died without healer for leaving a newbie behind. So for my unpopular suggestion:

Please only apply the cutscenes when there's a newbie, so the newbies can watch the cutscenes and the experienced players can enjoy the bonus.
If all eight members done it, no cutscenes.