Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Reinha]

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My first time experience was similar except that my group finished so fast I almost timed out of the instance in the middle of a cutscene. After the change to the cutscenes I was finally able to experience this content the way it was intended.

There are some interesting fixes suggested in the thread but tbh if one involves taking away the cutscenes and increased rewards just because I'm not new anymore then I don't want it. There are enough fast roulettes to do for experience and poetics. You don't need to do this one if the rewards aren't worth waiting out the cutscenes.

[ArcIgnis]

More and more people in this roulette who simply cannot be bothered to sit through the cutscenes, are now simply leeching off of those who want it over with. People decide to AFK, unable to vote kick them for being in combat. They all get the same rewards for doing absolutely nothing. Others are also abusing the loophole of disconnecting/reconnecting to the game, to skip cutscenes and pressing onward.

My suggestion is to allow non-skippable cutscenes IF there are ACTUALLY FIRST TIMERS in the instance. If that's too complicated or hard to code, make a main scenario roulette that has skippable cutscenes that shares the seem daily reward lock-out.
If that is also too hard/complicated to code, remove cutscenes all-togehter like it usually was, or change up the instance in the first place, rebuilding it from scratch.

[Krotoan]

My suggestion is to allow non-skippable cutscenes IF there are ACTUALLY FIRST TIMERS in the instance.

I'm pretty sure we addressed this somewhere in the 100+ page thread.. But this would possibly encourage kicking 1st timers or leaving if 1st timers were in the run.

If that's too complicated or hard to code, make a main scenario roulette that has skippable cutscenes that shares the seem daily reward lock-out.

Why? It's in the roulette to allow people progression clears and story completion. The actual rewards for doing it are pretty minimal without the huge roulette boost and there's no reason to give the boost if you allow skipping, this would create a crazy shortcut to leveling. Simply don't do this roulette if you aren't ok with the time investment vs the rewards.

If that is also too hard/complicated to code, remove cutscenes all-togehter like it usually was, or change up the instance in the first place, rebuilding it from scratch.

.. usually was? It has always had the cutscenes since release. I also wouldn't consider going back to rework this a worthwhile investment of time vs working on new content everyone will enjoy. We've constantly been shown a limited resource pool for development being a thing with FFXIV, lets not sacrifice another instance or storyline to fix something that's easily ignorable and avoidable if you don't want to experience it more than once.

[Seraphor]

Sure I'm repeating this but...

The rewards are specifically tailored to it's long duration due to the cutscenes.
If you allow cutscenes to be skipped, in any capacity, then you have to reduce the rewards.

This means you effectively have two different options.
Long duration, big rewards.
Short duration, less rewards.

People will likely roll the roulette intending to get one or the other, and then when they get the one they don't want, will leave/kick to get the one they do want.
If it's two different options, then you may as well make that two different roulette options to ensure you roll for the content you want.

This then defeats the point of MSQ roulette, which is purely to fill queues for newbies.

As it stands, you know the roulette will take a considerable amount of time, you know what you're getting into, so you decide whether that's worth it.
If people are disconnecting to skip cutscenes, report them.

[LalaRu]

Pretorium (the longest one) is about 45' of time to complete.
A little bit more than two times the average 20' DF run (I'm sure someone then will post about "all my runs are 10' or less" in his dreaming server...).
Rewards are threefold+ the normal.
If you still complain, you have failed or skipped your math class.

[Rilifane]

As I see it the only way to fix it without punishing new players is making it a solo dungeon.
As it has been mentioned several times: if you make the cutscenes skippable if no new players are present, they will get kicked. I have seen players get kicked before the change for asking to watch the cutscenes.
While in theory it sounds as if lower rowards with skippable cutscenes and higher rewards with non-skippable cutscenes sounds like both are equally fine, one simply being faster than the other but the net reward gain/time is the same, in practise most people will aim for the short version to free up time for other things.

Solo dungeon or keep it as it is.
People know what's coming when they choose that particular roulette.

[Kolsykol]

Sure I'm repeating this but...

The rewards are specifically tailored to it's long duration due to the cutscenes.
If you allow cutscenes to be skipped, in any capacity, then you have to reduce the rewards.

This means you effectively have two different options.
Long duration, big rewards.
Short duration, less rewards.

People will likely roll the roulette intending to get one or the other, and then when they get the one they don't want, will leave/kick to get the one they do want.
If it's two different options, then you may as well make that two different roulette options to ensure you roll for the content you want.

This then defeats the point of MSQ roulette, which is purely to fill queues for newbies.

As it stands, you know the roulette will take a considerable amount of time, you know what you're getting into, so you decide whether that's worth it.
If people are disconnecting to skip cutscenes, report them.

Incentivizing people to just afk because they're so sick and tired of having to watch the exact same cutscenes over and over again on a daily basis is just bad game design.
The whole thing is just outdated at this point, they should just make it solo:able or let people vote at the start if they want to skip the cutscenes ( and make it so that you need 80% or something to say yes, I dunno ).

Yes yes, poor new players and all that.
But that's how it is.
In WoW the entire world of the game changed drastically and there is A LOT of content ( including story content ) that is no longer available or no one does it anymore.
I have loads of stuff on my original character that no one can get anymore because I played in Vanilla.

I don't think that everyone should have these rewards that basically feel mandatory dangled in front of their faces and be forced to sit through the same cutscenes over and over again which chances are every single person in the raid has already seen regardless just because some new people might not have seen them before.
MMO's are an evolving genre, they don't stay stagnant.
If you join later on you're going to miss content in every other MMO.
And I get that this is story content ( altho again this is a thing in WoW too ), but you can still watch the cutscenes regardless at any time if you want.

And you're also not experiancing it how it was intended to begin with which is an argument that people keep making.
It was never intended to be this thing that people just sprint through as quickly as possible, and the fights don't even really have any mechanics at this point they're just tank n spank.
The entire idea that people should '' get the intended experience '' is a thing of the past regardless of whether you force people to watch the cutscenes or not.

Pretorium (the longest one) is about 45' of time to complete.
A little bit more than two times the average 20' DF run (I'm sure someone then will post about "all my runs are 10' or less" in his dreaming server...).
Rewards are threefold+ the normal.
If you still complain, you have failed or skipped your math class.

I honestly think that this is sorta just totally besides the point.
The problem is that the rewards are so good that you basically feel forced to do it, even if you don't want to.
And it's just bad game design because you feel forced to do something extremely boring that can eat up around an hour ( queues are a thing too ).
I don't think that basically holding super buffed up rewards hostage like this for the sake of making players participate in something extremely outdated is good game design.

Maybe it's a personality trait or something.
But I feel really forced into doing it every day because the rewards are so good.
I have a hard time rationalizing not doing it even tho I really hate it and don't want to do it and feel as if I am about to flip over my desk if I have to watch the cutscenes one more time.
I think that if a game makes you feel that way then it's poorly designed, especially when it's a repetitive daily thing and not a one time thing or a weekly.

Which btw, is another idea too.
If it was a weekly where you got an even bigger reward it wouldn't be as painful.

[Seraphor]

Incentivizing people to just afk because they're so sick and tired of having to watch the exact same cutscenes over and over again on a daily basis is just bad game design.

Then don't run the roulette?

You can cap on weekly tomestones in 2 or 3 days doing just Expert and 50/60/70 roulettes.
There's levelling up, but you can gain a level with the other roulettes each day, and that's not going to matter anyway once you get your jobs to 80.

The whole thing is just outdated at this point, they should just make it solo:able or let people vote at the start if they want to skip the cutscenes ( and make it so that you need 80% or something to say yes, I dunno ).

So people who vote no can be kicked?

Like I said, if you have two options, whether by voting, or by the presence of newbies, or whatever, then you may as well have two roulettes so you can choose which one to go into without messing about with voting or anything. At that point, you're not going to get people doing the one roulette that actually matters.

The entire idea that people should '' get the intended experience '' is a thing of the past regardless of whether you force people to watch the cutscenes or not.

This is still a Final Fantasy game. Story comes first, people want to experience the story as it was intended, not to watch cutscenes jumbled up in the Inn.

[Kolsykol]

Then don't run the roulette?


So people who vote no can be kicked?

Like I said, if you have two options, whether by voting, or by the presence of newbies, or whatever, then you may as well have two roulettes so you can choose which one to go into without messing about with voting or anything. At that point, you're not going to get people doing the one roulette that actually matters.


This is still a Final Fantasy game. Story comes first, people want to experience the story as it was intended, not to watch cutscenes jumbled up in the Inn.

You're just making up excuses and rationalizing poor game design.
I don't think that '' don't run the roulette '' is a good argument at all, especially not considering the rewards that we're talking about.
You're basically handicapping yourself by not doing it, and you shouldn't have to do that just to not go through this huge time sink slog on a daily basis. I think that's a very simple-minded way of looking at it and is just a way to hand-wave away issues and concerns...
I really don't see why this is hard to understand.

I also don't really think that people who vote no would be kicked, and I think that it should be set after people have voted so even then you wouldn't be able to revert it regardless of whether you kick them or not.
And I dunno about your experience with the game, but in my experience at least with the community I don't believe that people would give them crap for it. Especially not since I think that it'd be quite rare ( because the overwhelming majority of people have already done it a billion times before ).
I wouldn't, regardless of how much I don't like this thing.


And again I don't think that this whole '' experience the story as it was intended '' holds much water either.
Because you're not.
The fights basically have no mechanics and everything happens so quickly ( it's just the cutscenes eating up all of that time ).
Like are you being real here?
Are you really going to sit here and tell me that it was intended to play out the way in which it does in the roulettes nowadays?

It's almost like saying that if there was a roulette like this in WoW where people went through ICC only without having to do any mechanics or anything where you just rushed through it all quickly and tank n spanked everything = '' experiencing it how it was intended ''.
Are you actually missing out on anything if you watch it at the Inn than if you just sprint to the boss and tank n spank it in 1-2 minutes and then repeat again and again? What exactly are you missing out on that you wouldn't get by just doing it and then watching the cutscenes at the Inn?
What exactly is it that you're missing out on?

And even so you only do that one time, and how many in the group is it that haven't done it before?
It's very rare that you get grouped up with someone who haven't done it before, and after you've done it you'll be stuck in the endless cycle with the rest of us.
Why should 95% of people have to suffer through it on a daily basis just so that one or two people can rarely '' experience '' it '' how it was intended '' ( but not really ) only to then be stuck in the same cycle as everyone else afterwards?

Like I think that people are just trying to rationalize this so that they can hand-wave peoples concerns away instead of actually acknowledging that it's poorly designed.
Yeah, this is an FF game. But it's also an MMO and you're playing with other players.
MMO's aren't single-player games and you have to think about things in the context of a group of people trying to enjoy the game together.
If 9 out of 10 people aren't enjoying it for the sake of one person there is a problem.
One person wanting to sit through the cutscenes instead of watching them at the Inn just so that we can get back to sprinting to the next boss and fight it for 1-2 min before rince and repeat means that a whole bunch of people have to waste their time for the sake of one person who I don't even think is enjoying it to begin with even with how it is right now and who will just be the same as the rest of us afterwards anyways.

[Seraphor]

No, we know it's designed poorly. They've admitted as much themselves. but that's why it has to have it's own roulette.
If it was designed well, without loads of cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, then it could be bundled into any other roulette and this wouldn't be an issue.

But none of your proposed 'fixes' are any better than what we already have, and we've explained why.

And "95% of people" do not "suffer" through this every day.

I've already mentioned there are better ways to get tomestones, exp is fleeting while you're levelling, and besides that, a minority of players even bother with MSQ roulette, and some of them, if not most, don't mind it.
It is not so rewarding that you can't make do without running it at all.