Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Tridus]

Now. They encourage people to only do it in the case that the full party is past msq. But who wants to bet people are going to be using this method and still leaving newbies behind?

Boy, players sure do have a hard time understanding the concept of "go run something else if you don't like how long this takes", don't they? It's like dealing with a bunch of children.

Either way. SE. Why do we have to find ways to brake your game for you to make worthwhile changes to it.

It was already broken for newbies. Now it's not. Everyone else has a large number of other options.

After admitting the failure of these two dungeons, nothing is done, except for inconvenience a good percentage of the player base that was causing no issue, and take away any choice we had in how we wish to progress the story at this part of the game...

Do you even know what the problem was? A "good percentage" were in fact causing the issue by putting their own desire to run it fast over new players. SE's made it pretty clear: if you don't want to let people watch the cutscenes, do not do this roulette.

I don't see what is so hard about that, but now we have players trying to find newer and more creative ways to cause problems again.

I'm not disappointed in the player base, I'm disappointed in SE, and I hope these dungeons continue to inconvenience them until they stop the lazy approach.

You're not disappointed in a player base that advocates disconnecting to screw newbies over more reliably? Really?

I tell ya, some of the absurdly hyperbolic player reactions to this have turned me against them. This was nowhere near the best way to fix the problem. But seriously, people. You sound like spoiled brats upset that dad said you have to play nice with the new kid.

[BillyKaplan]

It was already broken for newbies. Now it's not. Everyone else has a large number of other options.

There are newbies who couldn't care less about the story, and there are alts of people who have already seen these scenes before. And then there're the newbies who'd like to watch cutscenes, but at their own pace, which could be faster or slower than what SE set. So no, it's still very much broken for all these people and no one has an option. Before, it was a hassle, but newbies could get a party and watch the scenes at their own pace. That's what I did and it was amazing. Now, I can go in there on my level 70 unsynced and still have to put up with it. This is very much broken, just in brand new ways.

SE's made it pretty clear: if you don't want to let people watch the cutscenes, do not do this roulette.

SE is also trying to push the responsibility for this horrible design on the players when they themselves have never implemented anything of this style since. This is not how it should've been fixed and people can tell us not to run it until they're blue in the face, you NEED people queueing for it so long as it's a party duty otherwise those first timers whose experience you're defending (many of whom don't even care about the cutscenes) won't even get in the instance in the first place.

[Tridus]

Before, it was a hassle, but newbies could get a party and watch the scenes at their own pace.

Telling people who mostly don't know what they're doing is not a fix. It's a cop out and godawful user experience design. They will never do that.

SE is also trying to push the responsibility for this horrible design on the players when they themselves have never implemented anything of this style since.

No, they own that the design is bad. Which is why it's never shown up again. Players brought this on themselves by acting terrible to people who did want to watch the cutscenes.

This is not how it should've been fixed and people can tell us not to run it until they're blue in the face, you NEED people queueing for it so long as it's a party duty otherwise those first timers whose experience you're defending (many of whom don't even care about the cutscenes) won't even get in the instance in the first place.

We're at what, 3 weeks now? Queues are still moving and newbies are still getting it done. Still waiting for the predicted apocalypse. At this point, predicting it means less than nothing.

The only people still complaining are people who still think this roulette exists for them to speedrun for XP. It does not. Accept it and move on. You'll be a lot happier.

[Skivvy]

We're at what, 3 weeks now? Queues are still moving and newbies are still getting it done. Still waiting for the predicted apocalypse. At this point, predicting it means less than nothing.

Not predicting the apocalypse, but it seems SE is unhappy with things as they currently stand as they are already looking to amend rewards. I would assume that means that the veteran participant drop off is more than they wanted.

[Raiya]

Aaand now theres even a reddit guide to "how about NO" CS hell C_C

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._how_to_shave/

I mean comeon I know SE would LIKE people to watch the CS's in an ideal world but realistically time is money and people are just gonna find a way around or abandon something the DO NOT WANT TO DO. Not to mention just bumping up the reward is just well...... asking for trouble maybe?

[Jxnibbles]

Aaand now theres even a reddit guide to "how about NO" CS hell C_C

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._how_to_shave/

I mean comeon I know SE would LIKE people to watch the CS's in an ideal world but realistically time is money and people are just gonna find a way around or abandon something the DO NOT WANT TO DO. Not to mention just bumping up the reward is just well...... asking for trouble maybe?

I mean this was obviously bound to happen. Get 5 players together and queue and just abuse this/zerg rush. How will Square react knowing the roulette is going to just get abused and new players will still be left behind.

It is safe to say nothing will happen to these players who abuse it.. Just like nothing happened to the wintraders ect.. Will this happen enough times to actually force Square to fix the entire problem or will we see another band-aid?

[Raiya]

I mean this was obviously bound to happen. Get 5 players together and queue and just abuse this/zerg rush. How will Square react knowing the roulette is going to just gett abused and new players will still be left behind.

It is safe to say nothing will happen to these players who abuse it.. Just like nothing happened to the wintraders ect.. Will this happen enough times to actually force Square to fix the entire problem or will we see another band-aid?

First of all it has to be said that this bypass as we can call it and its potential for spam farming isnt something like discovering a bug. This was something intentionally done BY SE and intentionally introducing this "feature" which wasnt an issue up to now.

Second if they were to theoretically ban or temp ban people for dcing to cancel the CS it would potentially be like throwing petrol on a smouldering fire and the bad publicity would bite them pretty hard. Lest we forget this whole thread basically shows up the rather devisive and unwanted changes that were made. The fact were here still giving out about this shows its not going away anytime soon.

Third the real problem here has always been Praetorium rather than Castrum (which isnt much longer than before and the CS's arent that annoying there) which is has been admitted as a bad design by SE themselves and has not been been used since because of this. That being said do you really expect players to just simply sit there afk for 5 min multiple times expecially when an obvious way around it is available? The difference can shave 20min off thats SIGNIFICANT and a serious oversight.

The truth is they could just about get away with it with castrum but Praetorium NEEDS to be reworked. They could just remove the roulette entirely and just downscale Castrum to a 4man and dump it into the lvl50 roulette and instance a good chunk of Praetorium and Just turn Ultima into a trial fight but that would require effort and time to do which IMO should have just been done in the first place.

Alternatively all they had to do is just not allow cutscene skipping when someone in the group hasnt completed then duty and up the noobie exp bonus by 5 and tomestones by 10 and it would have been just about acceptable. Forcing people to watch the CS's when everyones already completed it though is just ridiculous.

[Tridus]

Not predicting the apocalypse, but it seems SE is unhappy with things as they currently stand as they are already looking to amend rewards. I would assume that means that the veteran participant drop off is more than they wanted.

Or it shows that they think the reward doesn't match the time investment. Without knowing what they're adding, there's really no way to tell. A high value reward showing up there will send one message, and a 10% XP buff will send a different one.

[BillyKaplan]

Telling people who mostly don't know what they're doing is not a fix

You're absolutely right, but the option to run content as you wished existed. It doesn't now. That's an anti QoL change for most people.

We're at what, 3 weeks now? Queues are still moving and newbies are still getting it done. Still waiting for the predicted apocalypse. At this point, predicting it means less than nothing.

Queues popping does not necessarily equates queues moving. Leveling roulette queues popped but SE still bothered adding the cracked crystal to it and added it to the armored tank mount achievements. And now, they're increasing the awards for this as well. It's almost like SE themselves wants us vets to queue, interesting.

The only people still complaining are people who still think this roulette exists for them to speedrun for XP

This tells me you didn't read a thing I wrote because most of my post was about people running the place for the first time on their given character, if not in general. I find that most people who defend this change care less about helping the first timers, and more about punishing the vets. Or you'd have acknowledge that #NotAllFirstTimers

[Vstarstruck]

Boy, players sure do have a hard time understanding the concept of "go run something else if you don't like how long this takes", don't they? It's like dealing with a bunch of children.

You mean how SE is treating its player base? This change is treating us like a bunch of children.

For the rest:
It is now broken for new players along with vets, before it wasn't. Before you can make your own groups and go at your own pace, like if people can read fast it is now boring. Some "newbies" (as you call them) DO NOT WANT TO WATCH THESE THINGS!!!! These people have NO OPTIONS NOW!!! not even premade it still goes at that set speed.

It was never broken before as people had options, it is broken now though.

This tells me you didn't read a thing I wrote because most of my post was about people running the place for the first time on their given character, if not in general. I find that most people who defend this change care less about helping the first timers, and more about punishing the vets. Or you'd have acknowledge that #NotAllFirstTimers

exactly, I seen more problems in MSQ before 4.2 on this base then people that just wanted to watch the CS. I seen more "new players" bringing a friend to try hold the group hostage, then new people "forced" not to watch CS (everyone that communicated everyone was fine with them watching)

The first attempt of a light fix SHOULD OF BEEN!!! a simple pop up, telling players there is a lot of CS, just like other content and that it may be a good idea to make your own group if you want to take your own pace. You know what? People defending this bs change, did you ever take a look at pfs here and there before 4.2? there was scattered pfs taking place about doing MSQ with CS, you acted like this never took place and it damn well did.