Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Krotoan]

Ultimately, the core of the issue that bothers me most if the choice of the matter. There are a lot of people who are interested in watching the cutscenes,but there are just as many who are indifferent or simply just want to get past it. Whereas before you had the option to ask for people to run with you to watch the cs or simply speed run it by queuing normally, currently there is no way to skip past it (without buying a story skip potion). Regardless if the people in it want to watch or if everyone has already cleared, you are forced to endure the cutscenes at a set speed, which, after the 3rd+ time starts to get pretty old for most people. And I think that being able to make that choice is what it really boils down to in the end.

I hope SE will serious consider revising this change to be something that is more appealing to all players.

I support your point, and yes, the lack of choice is the core argument, but the majority of people in this thread are saying "It isn't worth it". Only once it was discovered it affected all instances, even rewatching just the cutscenes, did the outcry change. And there are still people talking of making it "worth the run". Reverting it would make these people happy, but would result in them continuing to rush through the DF queued instances and dragging sprouts along with them in a mishmash of unintelligibly stitched together cutscenes with no context. I agree it should be changed, but currently it benefits the people that particular roulette was created for the most and affects the people interested in xp/tomes per minute the least. They need a fix, but reverting back to the old way seems to me to be the worse impact.

[Jijifli]

I agree it should be changed, but currently it benefits the people that particular roulette was created for the most and affects the people interested in xp/tomes per minute the least.

Not every new player wants to see the cutscenes in Castrum. Or was the roulette all this time intended to be cutscene roulette and not, "Get this player through story" roulette?

[Krotoan]

Not every new player wants to see the cutscenes in Castrum. Or was the roulette all this time intended to be cutscene roulette and not, "Get this player through story" roulette?

No not every player does, but the ones who did had no obvious option to get that done. They were instructed by the game to "use duty finder" only to end up in a party uninterested in their experience and only in the xp/tomes they could get. The roulette was created for those who needed to get past those MSQ dungeons. Everyone in this thread is talking of "forced to watch cutscenes" like it's some sort of torture. In the hours necessary to complete this game it's minor and comparing the two kinds of people , newbies who don't care about the story and would rather rush through and newbies who want to enjoy the story, who had more options in the past? The INTENT was to get new players party members if they couldn't locate their own. The refined intent, as has been demonstrated by their new rule, is to allow newbies to enjoy the story AND find party members who are OK with that. People who don't care can still clear it to continue but with a minor inconvenience. As has been said several times in this thread though, I am in support of removing the restriction from PF and Solo instances, but if that cannot be separated I still believe the greater good is allowing people to experience a very crucial part of the first story arc in full without having to negotiate it.

[Jijifli]

Everyone in this thread is talking of "forced to watch cutscenes" like it's some sort of torture. In the hours necessary to complete this game it's minor

Do me a favor please. Go pick an episode from a show you like, okay? Any show is fine. Now watch that selected episode over and over. Tell me you never get sick of seeing the exact same scene over and over again.

That's what happens when you force cutscenes. You're making us rewatch an episode over and over every time we queue up. That'll drive people insane.

The INTENT was to get new players party members if they couldn't locate their own. The refined intent, as has been demonstrated by their new rule, is to allow newbies to enjoy the story AND find party members who are OK with that.

Let's use the perspective of a player that has no idea what is inside of Castrum and Praetorium. This player is used to dungeon related runs being 15-20 minutes since we just speedrun the leveling dungeons anyways. They noticed how short it takes to do dungeons so these shouldn't be different right? It takes them a while to get in because less people are queuing, but eventually, either from that roulette or mentor roulette, it fills. 45 minutes later... they're irritated it's taking so long. Why is it taking so long? Just the cutscenes?

I haven't exactly done it on an alt for story since the change, but does the game alert the dungeon will take longer than most? Whenever cutscenes take more than 5 minutes in story they seem to put a warning going, "HEY THIS TAKES A WHILE" before they let you see them. Castrum and Prae doesn't warn you though, not when you unlock, and if you don't have access to the roulette, the duty finder doesn't even tell you that you're forced into cutscenes. Check the actual dungeon descriptions, nowhere does it say forced cutscenes, so why do people outside of roulette gotta be hit?

[Vstarstruck]

Do me a favor please. Go pick an episode from a show you like, okay? Any show is fine. Now watch that selected episode over and over. Tell me you never get sick of seeing the exact same scene over and over again.

I tried to tell them that long ago, and several times. It was ignored every time. They are just a white knight troll and will not respond to logical criticism. I find it even more amusing they took out the sing quote that advertises how much of a troll they are. (or least i do not see it in that last post for some reason)

The INTENT was to get new players party members if they couldn't locate their own. The refined intent, as has been demonstrated by their new rule, is to allow newbies to enjoy the story AND find party members who are OK with that. People who don't care can still clear it to continue but with a minor inconvenience. As has been said several times in this thread though, I am in support of removing the restriction from PF and Solo instances, but if that cannot be separated I still believe the greater good is allowing people to experience a very crucial part of the first story arc in full without having to negotiate it.

THEY do not tech people well on the pf. Have you ever tried to help someone running the level 50 extremes for the first time? Have you ever ran MSQ with people with the ability to run it themselves but wanted to hold the group hostage? There are more problems in this game then a few people being "rushed" to watch CS. SE does not address things that cases problems fo more players because it shows how out of touch hey are with the user base. What about menu hell for new players? I seen people have more problems with that, then a select minority whining about CS.

Or what about this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Sensory-Issues
?

I find it really insulting they do not address bigger issues and make a change that only helps such a small minority of players and not change things that really need changing. (And those problems, like this sound issue, impact people to much greater degree then people and CS, they always had the option to watch CS, these problems i am referring to are forced and there is no way around them.

[wildbill]

I went into these instances with a friend a few weeks ago before the patch. I am sorry to say it was one of the most awful experiences.

I’ve been through them "a time or two". Original story and duty roulette. I personally skipped the cutscenes my first time through as I was well aware of the controversy. Totally ruined my experience! But I got through it.

My friend said there was no way he was going to have the same experience I had. He watched the cutscenes. When he came to, everyone was way ahead of him and he had no idea what to do. Total confusion!!! Total Chaos!!! I went back to find him and it just kept going downhill from there. Both instances. That is when I really saw just how bad it was for new players trying to experience the full game.

It was way worse than my first experience! HORRIBLE!

They're trying to appease two crowds - Those going through the MSQ, and those leveling. But there is content involved. You only need to see it once.

To appease both crowds, you need a distinction.

Those who want to skip the cutscenes and those who don't.

Those who don't skip the cutscenes should get bonus rewards as they do now. Perhaps a little sweetener would help. Those who skip, don't get any cutscenes except before and after the instance. These can be skipped too.

Duty finder should prompt each player and ask how they want to experience it. Then it should queue people based off of that distinction. Two separate queues for the same instance and different rewards for each.

This way, people wishing to experience the whole story can still do so, and people wishing to farm can still do so. New players can also decide if they want to skip the custscenes too. Just like I did. It all then comes down to the individual player and how they choose to experience the content.

There really should be an option since there is controversy.

[Krotoan]

Do me a favor please. Go pick an episode from a show you like, okay? Any show is fine. Now watch that selected episode over and over. Tell me you never get sick of seeing the exact same scene over and over again.That's what happens when you force cutscenes. You're making us rewatch an episode over and over every time we queue up. That'll drive people insane.

They aren't making you do ANYTHING. Don't do them. That's my point. If you are the kind of person who can't stand it. DON'T DO IT. It's not required for you. You're not some sort of selfless martyr if you DO do them, but you're also not evil if you decide that roulette queue is not for you anymore. This is how we find out if there are enough of the kind of people who CAN deal with it to keep the roulette sustained.

On a side note, you've never babysat before have you?

Let's use the perspective of a player that has no idea what is inside of Castrum and Praetorium. This player is used to dungeon related runs being 15-20 minutes since we just speedrun the leveling dungeons anyways. They noticed how short it takes to do dungeons so these shouldn't be different right? It takes them a while to get in because less people are queuing, but eventually, either from that roulette or mentor roulette, it fills. 45 minutes later... they're irritated it's taking so long. Why is it taking so long? Just the cutscenes?

I haven't exactly done it on an alt for story since the change, but does the game alert the dungeon will take longer than most? Whenever cutscenes take more than 5 minutes in story they seem to put a warning going, "HEY THIS TAKES A WHILE" before they let you see them. Castrum and Prae doesn't warn you though, not when you unlock, and if you don't have access to the roulette, the duty finder doesn't even tell you that you're forced into cutscenes. Check the actual dungeon descriptions, nowhere does it say forced cutscenes, so why do people outside of roulette gotta be hit?

I've already mentioned I think people should have the choice when queuing them solo or PF, but it also doesn't warn you that "people may skip the cutscenes and leave you behind , but you can watch them later at the inn. However you will not have the context of the fights or ingame text to frame these.". You think this is a matter of warning? If they just added a text box with your proposed warning it'd be OK then? Or would people just click on it anyway and progress because you have to? Maybe a box that you click "nah" and it skips the entire dungeon and gives you no XP. Nobody has a choice whether they do it the first time or not, warning or not.

You're also using an example of a longer time that may or may not happen. The queues have gone up yes, but unless I'm horribly uninformed primetime has only gone up to about 20 minutes for a DPS and is still within 5 minutes for healer or tank.

[Jijifli]

They aren't making you do ANYTHING. Don't do them. That's my point. If you are the kind of person who can't stand it. DON'T DO IT. It's not required for you. You're not some sort of selfless martyr if you DO do them, but you're also not evil if you decide that roulette queue is not for you anymore. This is how we find out if there are enough of the kind of people who CAN deal with it to keep the roulette sustained.

On a side note, you've never babysat before have you?

Designing a roulette in a way that makes people not want to do it is already able to be seen as terrible design. Yes, I can't just not do it. Yes I understand I'm not held at gunpoint to do MS roulette. I'm not saying people are forced to queue, I'm saying it's bad to force people to watch a bunch of cutscenes every time.

Also, yes, I do babysit. The toddler never pays attention to the television anyways so we just put it on Paw Patrol and leave it alone for the day. Every now and again he'll look but not exactly pay attention.

I've already mentioned I think people should have the choice when queuing them solo or PF, but it also doesn't warn you that "people may skip the cutscenes and leave you behind , but you can watch them later at the inn. However you will not have the context of the fights or ingame text to frame these.". You think this is a matter of warning? If they just added a text box with your proposed warning it'd be OK then? Or would people just click on it anyway and progress because you have to? Maybe a box that you click "nah" and it skips the entire dungeon and gives you no XP. Nobody has a choice whether they do it the first time or not, warning or not.

You're also using an example of a longer time that may or may not happen. The queues have gone up yes, but unless I'm horribly uninformed primetime has only gone up to about 20 minutes for a DPS and is still within 5 minutes for healer or tank.

It didn't warn you about cutscene skippers because every dungeon before Cast and Prae let you skip already. And no I'm not saying, "DUR HUR LET IT SKIP IT ALL BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA DO DUNGEON!" I'm saying now it's inconsistent. Now there are cutscenes with the "this take a while" warning that are shorter than Prae's forced watching. You'd think you'd want to mention that to your player since 15 minutes was considered long enough in other cases to net a warning.

Also, my "45 minutes later" was not the queue time. I never stated how long the queue would go, but since you want some information... I do level alts. Removing any skip potion characters from the list, I believe I've put about 5 through the story. The tank queue during prime time with a PLD was 11 minutes for Castrum. So already double what you said for your example. And I'm going to use the tank example because that was in 4.1, so just a little bit before these changes. And the changes no matter what will make less queue, so... that would get even longer.

[Vstarstruck]

Designing a roulette in a way that makes people not want to do it is already able to be seen as terrible design. Yes, I can't just not do it. Yes I understand I'm not held at gunpoint to do MS roulette. I'm not saying people are forced to queue, I'm saying it's bad to force people to watch a bunch of cutscenes every time.

Also, yes, I do babysit. The toddler never pays attention to the television anyways so we just put it on Paw Patrol and leave it alone for the day. Every now and again he'll look but not exactly pay attention.



It didn't warn you about cutscene skippers because every dungeon before Cast and Prae let you skip already. And no I'm not saying, "DUR HUR LET IT SKIP IT ALL BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA DO DUNGEON!" I'm saying now it's inconsistent. Now there are cutscenes with the "this take a while" warning that are shorter than Prae's forced watching. You'd think you'd want to mention that to your player since 15 minutes was considered long enough in other cases to net a warning.

Also, my "45 minutes later" was not the queue time. I never stated how long the queue would go, but since you want some information... I do level alts. Removing any skip potion characters from the list, I believe I've put about 5 through the story. The tank queue during prime time with a PLD was 11 minutes for Castrum. So already double what you said for your example. And I'm going to use the tank example because that was in 4.1, so just a little bit before these changes. And the changes no matter what will make less queue, so... that would get even longer.

+1

They aren't making you do ANYTHING. Don't do them. That's my point. If you are the kind of person who can't stand it. DON'T DO IT. It's not required for you. You're not some sort of selfless martyr if you DO do them, but you're also not evil if you decide that roulette queue is not for you anymore. This is how we find out if there are enough of the kind of people who CAN deal with it to keep the roulette sustained.

On a side note, you've never babysat before have you?




I've already mentioned I think people should have the choice when queuing them solo or PF, but it also doesn't warn you that "people may skip the cutscenes and leave you behind , but you can watch them later at the inn. However you will not have the context of the fights or ingame text to frame these.". You think this is a matter of warning? If they just added a text box with your proposed warning it'd be OK then? Or would people just click on it anyway and progress because you have to? Maybe a box that you click "nah" and it skips the entire dungeon and gives you no XP. Nobody has a choice whether they do it the first time or not, warning or not.

You're also using an example of a longer time that may or may not happen. The queues have gone up yes, but unless I'm horribly uninformed primetime has only gone up to about 20 minutes for a DPS and is still within 5 minutes for healer or tank.

You missed the point completely. When you are selecting the quest manually, the DF notes say nothing about the forced CS on you like the roulette does.This tells me SE thinks ALL new players want to watch then, when more often then not, they don't and those people never complained or post because they had no reason to. I bet you SE does not even know what the majority wants because of that, they only hear one sided complaints. It is also bad it does not come with a warning like other content in the game that those 2 runs have a lot of cut scenes in them.

Sorry I am in disagreement still in forcing cutscenes to be watched. You treat adults like adults, not babies.

Because for every loud voice stating "I hated this and I will never do it again" or "I ran it once my first time and never again" we have NO IDEA how many are still plugging away at it for easy (not quick) rewards and just to help out.
LESS people are queuing for duties, no doubt. But less people queuing if the combined cross data-center pool is enough is still fine. We don't know anything right now other than It's gotten a little longer than some people say is usual but some other people are saying it's the same.
You're assuming the negative, most of the opposing camp is saying "wait and see".
There is no dissonance, there's anticipation of a result without presumption.

I need to ask why you are white knighting a bad change. Is it because you do not want to lose your get exp and afk? Is it because you think a select monitory has more important then majority of the player base? If that is the case there needs to be a lot of QoL changes that needs to be done, that have more impact to those select few, then this minor problem that SE made into a bigger problem. You like the idea people used to do something and now they can't because it takes too long?

[MistakeNot]

Do me a favor please. Go pick an episode from a show you like, okay? Any show is fine. Now watch that selected episode over and over. Tell me you never get sick of seeing the exact same scene over and over again.

That's what happens when you force cutscenes. You're making us rewatch an episode over and over every time we queue up. That'll drive people insane.

That will only happen if people are stupid enough to do it over and over despite not liking it.
Nobody is forced to run the MSQ roulette. Even if you do run it you are not forced to do it every day or even every week.

Besides, if you can stand running the same dungeons over and over and over, I am sure you can survive ignoring some cutscenes that you have seen before.