Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Usho]

As a long time player, it doesn't bother me. It is an optional roulette, and stress free as a duty for easy experience. And I already run alliance roulette, just not on my tanks.

If you don't like the changes, don't run it. Problem solved. I will continue running it. See how easy that is?

I don't run it anymore now anyway with this latest patch, but if you wanna waste an hour of your time on one roulette (which btw in the timeframe it takes to finish it now, you can get 2 other roulettes done) for minimal gain in return then by all means...Enjoy. As for me, I value my time, and sitting through 5 year old forced cutscenes everyday is just torture and no one should have to go through that hell.

With lack of interest in these changes that SE has done to this roulette, the sprouts will sadly end up suffering because of this more than anyone else. If you don't mind SE's badness and bad design in this overall, then well...more power to ya dude.

[Iscah]

For the record, on duty finder vs. party finder, the instructions in the quest objectives list usually say "Use the duty finder to enter [dungeon]". So new players are doing what they've been told to do.

Not every new player wants to see the cutscenes in Castrum. Or was the roulette all this time intended to be cutscene roulette and not, "Get this player through story" roulette?

Not *every* new player wants to watch cutscenes, but I feel like it would be relatively rare. Can't say for sure though.

And yes, it's "get the player through the story" roulette - as in, it's set up to let them experience the story, not feel forced to either skip the cutscenes or miss out on experiencing the battles which are also part of the story of that event.

I haven't exactly done it on an alt for story since the change, but does the game alert the dungeon will take longer than most? Whenever cutscenes take more than 5 minutes in story they seem to put a warning going, "HEY THIS TAKES A WHILE" before they let you see them. Castrum and Prae doesn't warn you though, not when you unlock, and if you don't have access to the roulette, the duty finder doesn't even tell you that you're forced into cutscenes. Check the actual dungeon descriptions, nowhere does it say forced cutscenes, so why do people outside of roulette gotta be hit?

I think that may not have been brought in until later in the game's development. The first time you get that warning is for the scenes at the very end of post-ARR leading into Heavensward.

Also, I feel like the extra-long cutscenes that trigger after just talking to a quest-objective person additionally need a warning because otherwise, until you're in it, it looks no different to the other hundreds of "go here, talk to X, maybe get a one-minute scene" objectives.

On the other hand, if I am going into the almost-definitely-final-dungeon of a game, I would absolutely expect to need to set aside a fair chunk of time for beating the dungeon and watching any associated cutscenes (regardless of whether they occur during or after the dungeon instance itself).

Forced cutscenes are not going to be an issue for a first-time player who has gone into the dungeon intending to experience the story, because they won't be intending to skip them in the first place.

I do agree that it would probably be helpful to add in a "time warning" to the description of the MSQ roulette though - not that anyone might actually *read* that description... or even a pop-up window in big flashing letters that they just click 'okay' to get rid of...

[BillyKaplan]

it's set up to let them experience the story, not feel forced to either skip the cutscenes or miss out on experiencing the battles which are also part of the story of that event.

See, the irony is that before no one was really forced to do anything. Newbies could ask to watch cutscenes and sometimes they'd be granted that. If they were lucky enough to have an FC at the time, they could've ran through it synced and proper and still be let to watch the cutscenes. Now no one has a choice at all and people really are forced to experience the story, whether they want to or not, and in a very specific way, and at a specific pace. So, to repeat a horse beaten well into its fifth death by now, this so called solution also doesn't really cater to the needs and wants of the very same demographic it claims to have been created for but only works for a very specific subset of it.

I think that may not have been brought in until later in the game's development. The first time you get that warning is for the scenes at the very end of post-ARR leading into Heavensward.

The question is, if such a system is already in place, why not add it to the existing relevant cutscenes if they're already changing things in that area? Is it that difficult?

On the other hand, if I am going into the almost-definitely-final-dungeon of a game, I would absolutely expect to need to set aside a fair chunk of time for beating the dungeon and watching any associated cutscenes (regardless of whether they occur during or after the dungeon instance itself).

And yet two expansions later and they have not repeated that design, leaving cutscenes at worst after the final boss fight (Keeper of the Lake) if not after you click the Exit and they're not awfully long when that happens. Both ARF and Ala Mhigo were low on cutscenes and you had a break between them and the main expansion's final trial. This is SE admitting, by implementation, that they made a mistake with our two culprit dungeons here. There is no reason to defend them.

Forced cutscenes are not going to be an issue for a first-time player who has gone into the dungeon intending to experience the story, because they won't be intending to skip them in the first place.

1. The issue of pace
2. The juxtaposition between being forced to watch cutscenes after an entire game's worth of cutscenes you can click through if not skip outright. It's a jarring experience.
3. Again, #NotAllFirstTimers

I do agree that it would probably be helpful to add in a "time warning" to the description of the MSQ roulette though

They did. Absurdly, they didn't add it to the separate dungeons. Funny because the change was made to the dungeons, not the roulette. And when you stop to think about it, that's exactly why this entire situation is entirely backwards and also shows how inappropriate SE's "solution" was - they tried to fix a problem with the roulette by changing the instances themselves. And I kind of get why, because newbies have no choice but to queue through the DF directly so how are you going to enforce the cutscene watching on the rest of the roulette-goers? But that only further highlights how lazy and hasty this solution is. Solo queueing, be it a full party or undersized, should've been given the choice to have it be like before. But that would've likely required they implemented a new mechanism (which for all we know might've taken less time than to make it a solo duty, wouldn't that be grand?)

Last point, before I return to my hole, is my amazement at the core dissonance in this debate. Not enough people queued for duties. Roulette was implemented to supplement queues. Change made that makes people queue less. By the very concept of it, why does it seem like a good idea to people? It doesn't even matter how a newbie experiences a story they might not even want to experience if they can't get into the duty in the first place. And we've already seen in this very thread 1. newbies who already declared they will not return the favor after they have gotten their clear, 2. good souls who tried and have given up. I reckon we'll only see more of these.

[MistakeNot]

See, the irony is that before no one was really forced to do anything. Newbies could ask to watch cutscenes and sometimes they'd be granted that.

They could ask, but by the time they had finished typing the question, the rest of the group would have sprinted ahead and likely already be at the first boss - leaving the poor newbie lost.

Alright, I am exaggerating slightly, but only slightly....

[wildbill]

I wish everyone was forced to watch the cutscenes when it was my first time through. I skipped them because I knew what would happen. I read all of the posts about it. Just a terrible experience altogether. It didn't matter what I did... it would have been bad either way.

But of course, after my first time through... I would understand why you wouldn't want to watch the cut-scenes all of the way through. I never gave anybody a hard time when they watched the cut-scenes, but I knew there was a good possibility that they were going to have a bad experience after the fact.

It really is a double-edged sword. A catch 22.

That is why it needs to be separated into two queues for each Dungeon. Leveling Mode and Story Mode. Give Story Mode huge rewards. Way bigger than what it is now. Make it worth it so people new to the content can really enjoy it and veterans will want to run it to earn sweet bonuses. Make Leveling Mode exactly what it was before 4.2 except remove the cut-scenes. Make it so that you can't do Leveling Mode without first doing Story Mode. This way every player sees the content at least once.

Maybe something like that would make everyone happy. With enough incentive of course.

[Krotoan]

Last point, before I return to my hole, is my amazement at the core dissonance in this debate. Not enough people queued for duties. Roulette was implemented to supplement queues. Change made that makes people queue less. By the very concept of it, why does it seem like a good idea to people? It doesn't even matter how a newbie experiences a story they might not even want to experience if they can't get into the duty in the first place. And we've already seen in this very thread 1. newbies who already declared they will not return the favor after they have gotten their clear, 2. good souls who tried and have given up. I reckon we'll only see more of these.

Because for every loud voice stating "I hated this and I will never do it again" or "I ran it once my first time and never again" we have NO IDEA how many are still plugging away at it for easy (not quick) rewards and just to help out.
LESS people are queuing for duties, no doubt. But less people queuing if the combined cross data-center pool is enough is still fine. We don't know anything right now other than It's gotten a little longer than some people say is usual but some other people are saying it's the same.
You're assuming the negative, most of the opposing camp is saying "wait and see".
There is no dissonance, there's anticipation of a result without presumption.

[Bahati]

I tried to keep up running it for new folks but I only lasted a few days before I couldn't sit through the same cut scenes and waste 45+ min of my time day after day. It should be far more lucrative than it is currently for non-first timers. Many veteran players would love to help out but it's just so much loss for so little gain on the daily.

[Krotoan]

Designing a roulette in a way that makes people not want to do it is already able to be seen as terrible design. Yes, I can't just not do it. Yes I understand I'm not held at gunpoint to do MS roulette. I'm not saying people are forced to queue, I'm saying it's bad to force people to watch a bunch of cutscenes every time.

Also, yes, I do babysit. The toddler never pays attention to the television anyways so we just put it on Paw Patrol and leave it alone for the day. Every now and again he'll look but not exactly pay attention.

You're not getting it then. You're not forced to queue, so you're not forced to watch the cutscenes. You can choose to not queue at all and watch no cutscenes.

Also: weird, most of the kids I watch like particular shows and specific parts of those shows and will watch them indefinitely. But they're older than toddlers so maybe there's the difference.

It didn't warn you about cutscene skippers because every dungeon before Cast and Prae let you skip already. And no I'm not saying, "DUR HUR LET IT SKIP IT ALL BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA DO DUNGEON!" I'm saying now it's inconsistent. Now there are cutscenes with the "this take a while" warning that are shorter than Prae's forced watching. You'd think you'd want to mention that to your player since 15 minutes was considered long enough in other cases to net a warning.

Also, my "45 minutes later" was not the queue time. I never stated how long the queue would go, but since you want some information... I do level alts. Removing any skip potion characters from the list, I believe I've put about 5 through the story. The tank queue during prime time with a PLD was 11 minutes for Castrum. So already double what you said for your example. And I'm going to use the tank example because that was in 4.1, so just a little bit before these changes. And the changes no matter what will make less queue, so... that would get even longer.

Your personal example is not anymore valid than the ones in this thread stating instant queues. You're also stating queue for a particular instance and not the roulette. The fact you don't want to bother with the story on alts means others have to run a high risk of not seeing the story properly on their mains?
And there are inconsistencies all the way through the dungeons and cutscenes. They don't explain you can actually leave the trial areas and queue later, they change the cutscene/dungeon dynamic drastically after ARR. These are all things that need to be addressed and I won't argue that, but your arguments for reverting to a newbie hostile system don't justify the cost to me and you have a solid way to avoid most of your own complaints.

[Jijifli]

Your personal example is not anymore valid than the ones in this thread stating instant queues. You're also stating queue for a particular instance and not the roulette.

I'd think my example being just a few weeks before the change would tell something.

Also, I used that example BECAUSE that character didn't do it yet, meaning to start, he doesn't have the roulette, and secondly, the system is set up so characters that have yet to complete the instance they queue'd for get a priority. So that was 11 minutes for a tank, before forced cutscene changes, with a priority queue since the character never did it before. And again, with a TANK that is considered severely in demand to a point where 90% of the time the adventurer in need is a tank. Imagine how much worse it'd be for a new dps.

[urban]

Annoying after the cutsceen my pld hp is 1/2.....if you do a speed pull and the healer not on par with what going on guess what a wipe and do it again but w/o the cs more time added..