Thread: Caster Changes in 4.2 (RIP Casters)

SMN didn't need a nerf in ST, maybe in AOE but not in ST, though I want to see the effect of the whole changes together to see how it'll pan out in the end

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

SMN needed a nerf. Plain and simple. It was doing more damage than SAMURAI in the 95 percentiles, being top dps. And it brought radiant shield/contagion & devotion. The BLM buff is going to add around 220 dps based on 95 percentile again. This will even out casters as is should be BLM > SMN > RDM, but will also most likely destroy SMN's already fragile place in any sort of meta.

On the other end they buffed MNK so much that it could replace MCH in the meta in triple melee friendly fights.

SMN's personal damage on FFlogs included Radiant Shield, and was overestimated.

There's also some issues with their DoT's being overestimated according to Nemekh.

Bard/Ninja/Dragoon and Machinist were all better classes.

Feel free to checkout Blackcat's raid dps tool if you want more context

While you are correct it would even out casters, it also firmly makes sure no caster is anywhere near optimal.

Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

This will even out casters as is should be BLM > SMN > RDM

See, now that's the part that bugs me.

Where do we get this preconceived notion that one class should out perform the other?

I understand comparing personal damage, raid damage, utility, etc. However, this notion that the casters, or any other groups of similar classes, need to be ranked against each other in this infallible list just strikes me as odd, and part of the reason we are so up-in-arms over some of the most trivial changes to the classes. I feel like if we stop trying to come up with some ordered list to the value of our caster classes, we'd all fee a lot better about how and what we play.

I get it, we all want "our" class to be better, and we are guilty of wanting it to be the best, to out perform the others. It's such a cliched reasoning but - it's human nature. But the sooner we stop thinking that way, and stop trying to rank the casters, the better.

Originally Posted by Tsurayu

Where do we get this preconceived notion that one class should out perform the other?

From the tradition of "Final Fantasy" games.

I don't play BLM; but in my Squee-fangirl heart of hearts, I believe the Black Mage (played correctly, with elegance) should always be the "Biggest Gun in the Universe" - the profession which makes everyone go "OH STERCUS WE ARE GOING TO DIE!" when they enter a room, with dramatic theme music

Summoners are stereotypically "nicer" than Black Mages; they tend to not want to go for FULL POWAH, playing to empathy.

And so on

~From an average SMN

Originally Posted by CatStarPrime

From the tradition of "Final Fantasy" games.

I don't play BLM; but in my Squee-fangirl heart of hearts, I believe the Black Mage (played correctly, with elegance) should always be the "Biggest Gun in the Universe" - the profession which makes everyone go "OH STERCUS WE ARE GOING TO DIE!" when they enter a room, with dramatic theme music

Summoners are stereotypically "nicer" than Black Mages; they tend to not want to go for FULL POWAH, playing to empathy.

And so on

~From an average SMN

Eeh? Have we been playing the same games? As far as I am aware Summoners have always been the far more... explosive mage. Granted Summoners can be seen as "nicer" but they are far from weaker. FFIX springs to mind. Vivi is next to useless end game compared to Eiko and Garnet, or even Quina for that matter.

Though they may have always been generally weaker in ST throughout the series, their ability to take out multiple foes was rarely, if ever, matched.

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Eeh? Have we been playing the same games? As far as I am aware Summoners have always been the far more... explosive mage.

It's been a long time since I played 9, but I know I never used Eiko or Garnet if I wasn't forced to do so. I would take Zidane, Steiner, Vivi, and backfill with Frey or Amarant

Originally Posted by hynaku

snip

RDM don't need a nerf. SAM is kind of just there. The nerfs are significant for SMN but not ground breaking. They will lose about 150-200 dps. I feel they should have just nerfed Ruin 3 OR WW. Nerfing both seems a bit much. Ruin 3 is the spam spell for SMN...so the 10 potency nerf is going to show. WW shouldn't have been touched since it is part of Bahamut rotation and that is already strict and IT SHOULD be worth the amount of effort that goes into using it. (Aetherflow has to be up, not moving during Bahamut, weaving Ruin 2 in with Festers + Tri D + Addle) It's an insanely strict rotation with little to no room for error.
But I've been loyal to SMN since launch, even when SMN was considered the worst job and there were statics with "LF DPS NO SMN ALLOWED" back at 50 cap - due to SMN literally being the worst job in the game.