Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

The issue is that Square Enix will not take into account DPS utility when balancing DPS classes, meaning Samurai and Black Mage will always get the raw end of the stick

I think they started with that intent when Stormblood launched with how much utility jobs like SMN and DRG have, so they rightly started the expansion with lower damage. Then Square caved to the complaints and buffed the jobs so that now jobs have both high damage, utility, and mobility regarding mechanics. This is blatantly in contrast to their initially stated goal that high mobility, high utility jobs would have low personal DPS.

^This above. Square should have gone with their initial intent. If I remember correctly when people complained about DRG and it was stated in some live letter or what have you, "DRG is a support melee job" people disliked that so Square caved. Cannot find where that was said but I do remember that being stated. SAM/BLM should be competing with each other but instead both are flat out not found to be in between a rock and a hard place.

I'm inclined to agree on I believe that the initial potencies and weapon skills damage that samurai started out with was meant to compete with the other dps starting SB launch

Futhermore the development team needs to acknowledge that the meta has been the same for quite some time as far as dps is concerned double range is too powerful due to the disembowel debuff.

I dislike saying that something should get toned down but in this case, I think maybe disembowel needs some kind of rework, removal, or outright removal while adding the damage to DRG personally. No amount of "play what you want and ignore the meta" will be enough currently. Square needs to not only acknowledge that jobs with utility simply do said DPS more damage than those with only raw personal damage but address the fact that certain jobs are always wanted and certain others are shunned or simply not as favorable. We have gone too long with jobs that have tons of utility running rampant and out of control. This needs to stop or give SAM/BLM the numbers to match. (Got a little carried away but you get the point).

Potency increases would be enough Samurai plays very well for the target playerbase it's aimmed towards

Everyone complained SAM was "OP" when 4.0 launched, so SE buffed the other melee classes and now everyone says "SAM is worthless raiding, go DRG or NIN". Maybe don't listen to players who say DRG and NIN need buffs next time SE.

When SAM was announced, I was hoping it would be a contender for the DRG slot with it's DPS. I would like it if SE would consider giving SAM piercing debuff, although the katana slashes it can also pierce, Yukikaze's animation is a slash then a pierce. Shintens are pierces as well, the lore already matches so why not give it piercing? (clarification, I know it's damage is slashing and those attacks are slashing.) This would make it so you have to choose between rDPS or betting everything on 1 dps. Most people would pick rDPS but it would at least make it a choice.

Originally Posted by Azurelos

When SAM was announced, I was hoping it would be a contender for the DRG slot with it's DPS. I would like it if SE would consider giving SAM piercing debuff, although the katana slashes it can also pierce, Yukikaze's animation is a slash then a pierce. Shintens are pierces as well, the lore already matches so why not give it piercing? (clarification, I know it's damage is slashing and those attacks are slashing.) This would make it so you have to choose between rDPS or betting everything on 1 dps. Most people would pick rDPS but it would at least make it a choice.

Honestly, the piercing debuff is the reason DRG is a mandatory slot in raids, and it's a failure of design when you look at another job, monk in this case, who's blunt damage resistance does absolutely nothing to contribute to party damage. This is where rather than advocate for SAM to get a piercing debuff, maybe we just have magic resistance down and physical resistance down. Divide the melee jobs into two groups so maybe MNK/DRG give physical resist down and NIN/SAM give magic resistance down.

Originally Posted by wereotter

Honestly, the piercing debuff is the reason DRG is a mandatory slot in raids, and it's a failure of design when you look at another job, monk in this case, who's blunt damage resistance does absolutely nothing to contribute to party damage. This is where rather than advocate for SAM to get a piercing debuff, maybe we just have magic resistance down and physical resistance down. Divide the melee jobs into two groups so maybe MNK/DRG give physical resist down and NIN/SAM give magic resistance down.

You give it to the tanks. Giving DPS permanent vulnerabilities enforces more party compositions, where as giving it to tanks does not. It wouldn't even have to be different vulnerabilities among them, just each tank job is capable of applying a stack, at 3/6% increased damage taken. Let it go up to 9% if you want to triple tank something.