Why the hate with endgame fights?

[KaivaC]

I see it as a negative design wise, to each their own.

So how would you change it then? If we have no enrage timers, players can just rez and heal through the fight eternally until players finally kill the boss. Well...at least until they run out of MP, but with a good party comp, that can easily be negated.

[Cakekizyy]

So how would you change it then? If we have no enrage timers, players can just rez and heal through the fight eternally until players finally kill the boss. Well...at least until they run out of MP, but with a good party comp, that can easily be negated.

Exactly how I would have itwork.

[KaivaC]

Exactly how I would have itwork.

And thus negate any challenge whatsoever.

[Bobs]

And thus negate any challenge whatsoever.

I would not call Enrage Timer a challenge. It's an instant kill mechanic. It's actually a very lazy way to give the appearance of challenge. It goes back the the arcade days when the point of the game was to make you spend more quarters. Are we playing a bullet storm or platform game.

It actually points to the fact that the game design is bad.

If you came on here and said; well it goes with the theme of Omega (which it does; being a primitive way to seem challenging). I would say ok I suppose you are right. That is not the argument you have been making though.

[KaivaC]

snip

Yes...it's a mechanic to keep players from cheesing the boss, thereby preventing them from taking all the time in the world to kill the boss. It's a hard incentive to get players to actually optimize their abilities to kill a boss in a timely fashion. This isn't an arcade game...so...say we don't have an enrage, what would you use instead?

[VanilleFang]

I would not call Enrage Timer a challenge.

In a game where DPS is the meta I don't see how it's not a challenge. Enrages ensure the players are playing at least somewhat optimally. Without enrage timers you would be able to beat anything as long as you heal enough (its literally impossible to run put of MP on WHM so MP wouldn't be an issue). People could be carried easily and people could get away with playing like garbage.

What would you replace enrage timers with? How would you introduce more difficulty?

[Bobs]

(its literally impossible to run put of MP on WHM so MP wouldn't be an issue).

What would you replace enrage timers with? How would you introduce more difficulty?

It's impossible to run out of MP. I would change that.
I would make stun mechanics useful again.
I would make it so you need to dispell boss or the players.
I would make it so DPS have to make a stun rotation.
I would get rid of predictable mechanics.

Pressing 1,2,3,4 the fastest while avoiding the bullet storm (cast lines). Is literally the most basic game-play there is. Go play Asteroids, same thing.

There is a whole list of skills not being used. I would use those and get rid of the Asteroids mechanics.

You know how they made Asteroids harder as time went on? Faster and more. Basically an Enrage Timer. Congratz you are paying a monthly to play Asteroids.

[Selova]

snip.

If all endgame content is just "asteroids" like you claim, then you should have no trouble getting into a group for Unending coil of Bahamut and downing him easily. It's just "asteroids" after all. I"m sure you can handle it. (Yes this is seriously your logic and it's hilariously bad)

[Dualgunner]

It's impossible to run out of MP. I would change that.

So get rid of the boss' soft or hard enrage timer, and replace it with a soft enrage timer of the healers are out of MP. Brilliant.

I would make stun mechanics useful again.

Fair enough. If that were to happen I'd also make it so the tank's stun isn't an optional.

I would make it so you need to dispell boss or the players.

Again, were this to happen Esuna would be off the optional list--something I don't mind, but if it isn't we wind up with pyrotechnics as they are now (Amon of Syrcus Tower).

I would make it so DPS have to make a stun rotation.

Can you elaborate what a "stun rotation" is?

I would get rid of predictable mechanics.

Which mechanics are you talking about? Or are you just talking about the pre-ordained nature of how the fights play out? Fair enough if that's the case, but the key will always be "learn what mechanic x does, and how to counter it", no matter the order they come in.

[Selova]

snip.

Armchair developers out in full force today I see. The challenge of encounters are all-encompassing, fights are never just as clear cut as "Do enough damage before X time/mechanic" and you win. The challenge comes from the execution of all the mechanics while at the same time performing at a level where you are able to beat the enrage.


It's all the mechanics working together like a well-oiled machine that make challenging fights. If you are so vehemently against enrage timers because you think they are "bad design", I challenge you to put something in it's place that is either just as challenging to overcome or even harder. I'd be willing to bet you can't come up with anything in the realm of a balanced and challenging encounter that would top it. Just do everyone a favor, stop pretending like you have any kind of experience with challenging encounter design and stop pulling the "Bad/Lazy Design" card, all it does is make you look foolish.