Why the hate with endgame fights?

[KaivaC]

The shinryu normal thing was that at the ilvl at the time (290ish) it was a large step up from any hard mode trial we had. I tell people to look at new steps of faith to see the difference; Shin lasts much longer, has much more varied mechanics, has a ring-out, and has a much more vicious add phase. I mean heck, its the first hard mode trial that has damage incoming on both tanks. It's doable, but it's an odd jump especially considering future hard mode trials need to be balanced compared to it; we'll see with the new jade stoa trial what they think.

Savage content...well, if your idea of fun is fighting a single boss for fifteen minutes following an exact pattern to the letter, with deviations from it being one-shotted, well go nuts. Oh, and if your team gets one shotted enough, its enrage, just restart. And there's a pretty hard cap to difficulty to it, as well; they make it too hard, only 1% of the playerbase can beat it and the raid scene dies, because there's nothing else to do at that level.

Key word - one-shotted enough. If a group is so bad that multiple players keep getting oneshot, then that's on those players...it's not a mistake on the part of the fight itself, because honestly, it's easy to get through each fight (I'm up to farm status for O3S and Shinryu Ex) without making a mechanic mistake. I will admit, I find challenges fun. I don't like face-rolling stuff - it's why I stopped playing games like Dynasty Warriors, where you can just mash buttons, essentially. We've had this discussion before - at this point, I don't feel that content should still be as casual as it it. Honestly, I feel that starting with Bardam's Mettle, dungeons should've been getting harder, leading up to Shinryu. I feel like Kugane Castle should've had interesting mechanics with the mobs...Temple of the Fist should've had fewer enemies with mechanics that could hit with you penalty debuffs. At lvl 70, all players need to start being legitimately challenged.

Facepalm all you want. All I am saying is that you can avoid the "elistists" you don't like by making your own PF. And I'm pretty sure they will avoid a learning party. If they don't, you can kick them.

But I somehow feel the problem is not here.

The post you're replying to was dripping with sarcasm lol

See I can accept that....however the dungeons and raids i see regularly on my server are not helping me much in terms of prospects. In any case I'll get there eventually.
And good on you for forum achievement.

They're not too different from their normal counterparts. Honestly, the true wake up call starts with O3S and Shinryu Ex...and those are more about paying attention to what 'you' are doing. Shinryu in particular does have healer specific mechanics unlike some other fights, but once you can figure out the order of his attacks, you should be fine. I can't speak on O4S because, and I've said this quite a few times on other posts, fighting there actually makes me incredibly nervous, so I haven't entered a prog party for any class.

Fun would be endgame that an entire FC can do, with more than eight people and not reliant on a single boss's pattern dancing. Fun would actually be some variation in group comp and tactics, maybe even using all that useless CC we have to stage enemies and making tanks have real offtank duties that require tank stance and judgment on which mobs to tackle next.

I mean...you do have 24-mans. And besides that, wouldn't that neglect the other FCs that don't comprise of more than 8 members? And let's be honest here, a large part of the player base can't deal with a few bosses that only have a single pattern. One would think it would be easy, but no...there's still a large portion of the player base that can't clear these fights. And you want to introduce variation? I mean, hell, players still screw up Hashmal on a weekly basis, and he is certainly easier than fighting Shinryu normal.