Why the hate with endgame fights?

[KaivaC]

This was something I noticed with Stormblood's release with something about nerfing the normal Shinryu, but I've seen some variation of it with Omega Savage as well. This might have existed way back with HW, but I'm not sure because I joined FFXIV sometime in 3.56. I saw it more often lately with our lively discussions about parsing, so now I'm bringing this to the forefront for a discussion.

Let the revels begin.

You could call this one of those 'straw broke the camel's back' discussion, as I'm wondering why there is some hate towards having Savage/Ex fights. Or rather, why some would say that it's either unnecessary, it's too hard (duh, it's Savage/Ex), or that it widens the player skill gap. I realize I'm encompassing a wide range of subjects by making this thread, but I feel like we could get a fairly decent discussion from this (plus, I'm tired of talking about parsing at the moment).

So, I'll start this with a question: what is the issue with endgame fights? Why are some individuals opposed to them?

[Enla]

It's nothing new honestly, people have been calling for it since I've joined and likely well before that as well. I still remember the complaints being enough to nerf the first Steps of Faith into the ground, rendering a tough but relatively straightforward DPS check into something laughable. From there every time a patch cycle hit certain sections of the community complained regardless if the content was a trial, dungeon, or twenty-four man raid, leading all the way up to similar calls being given for Nidhogg. Essentially one of the arguments that I've seen is that because so many people demand to be carried these fights can be near impossible for some and thus should be nerfed to retain some manner of flexibility. Personally I disagree with this wholeheartedly as I feel nerfing content only causes more lazy behavior, provided the content isn't /actually/ over-tuned. It's also ignoring the people crying for the nerfs who legitimately do want to be carried as well.

I'm eternally grateful that since the original Steps of Faith SE hasn't truly given in to such demands, and I hope it remains that way for most instances. I don't raid Savage, nor do I really care to push progression. I'm currently as casual as you can potentially be, but I'm content with the level of skill demanded of me. Hell I won't mind if they tuned it higher.

[AppleJinx]

I don't think many people are opposed to them but rather just a lack of time/interest to attempt to clear said fights. I guess people who are opposed to them are probably annoyed at SE for spending so much time and resource on content that a very little portion of the player base are interested in instead of devoting said resources on developing content that are more accessible to players that are more on the casual side.

[MuseTraveller]

Judging from all the nerf posts that pop all the time, -clears throat-
"Because I want to clear everything with minimal effort and time investment! Paying for a sub means all content shouldn't be just available to me, it should be given to me!"

[Erik501]

I don't think there is hate for the high end content. Sure I don't do it, but it does not mean I hate it being in the game. In fact, I think it is good for the game that they are there to offer some kind of challenge for those who want it, and with the normal stuff, I think SE does a great job balancing it for the normal players like me. In the first try I did with Shynriu normal I was awful even though I watched a couple of guides before going in, but we managed to clear in the second one, mainly because the newbies like me made less mistakes and the more experienced players made no mistakes at all XD. I found it hard enough to be fun but easy enough to be clearable with a bit of practice. In the end, there was nothing there that we had not seen before.

[VanilleFang]

To be frank? People are entitled and lazy. There's really not much else to it. They don't want to do the work but they want what ever doing the work would earn them.

[DrWho2010]

Some people don't have the capacity or the will to tackle endgame content. yet they still feel they are owed it and attempt to get carried. if they can't they complain.

[SenorPatty]

There are a sect of people here where the more stuff that is locked behind endgame fights, the more they will hate it. They're one-and-done kind of people so mastering a savage/ex is a waste of time for them when they know once they got what they want, they will never return to the content.

[Tint]

i don't call for nerfs, but i like easier fights as well.

an easier fight means less training, less failing and less problems with randoms.

the required coordination for those team jumprope mechanics in this game, the expectation of perfection that many people have compared with the fact that this game lacks long term goals and even encourages "to take breaks", wich destroys many FCs and statics, are my reasons for this mindset.

i simply don't want to mess with randoms in harder fights.

[CorbinDallas]

i don't call for nerfs, but i like easier fights as well.

an easier fight means less training, less failing and less problems with randoms.

the required coordination for those team jumprope mechanics in this game, the expectation of perfection that many people have compared with the fact that this game lacks long term goals and even encourages "to take breaks", wich destroys many FCs and statics, are my reasons for this mindset.

i simply don't want to mess with randoms in harder fights.

I have a similar mindset. Although I enjoy savage level fights with my static (we cleared 4 yesterday woo!), when it comes to pretty much everything else, the difficulty is wildly inconsistent and as a result certain fights are just unbearable. I accept dying as a result of my own mistakes, but dying because of other's mistakes rubs me the wrong way. It's why after 5 kills I've avoided Shinryu like the plague, it's just not consistently puggable.