Monk 4.2 Adjustments

[Shiroe]

mnk and smn should be like what blm and sam are to eachother..

blm & sam no utility but highest dps (maybe speed kill meta alts, but not much prog meta alts)

mnk & smn, both 2nd highest personal dps, after sam & blm.., but thanx to utility welcome in prog metas as alts.. and overall flexible

but like this, see mnk pulling away like smn did just before 4.2,.. and smn falling back to the love it got around 4.0 (even if not that bad... but still)

[BucklesTrespen]

Well I was thinking of FoW opener and keeping PB for a jump. RoW might be worth a TK here or there now considering the potential use.

Yeah, definitely during IR / Trick Attack windows and such. Gonna be fun finding the a rhythm for Monk with these changes. I'm still kinda annoyed that the GL on RoW is tied to the second tackle. I would have much preferred the second tackle just got eliminated at Wind Tackle had the GL attached. In desperate emergencies I don't much fancy changing into FoW and spamming Tackle Twice just to refresh GL at 1 second.

Oh well. What is QoL anyways. Now we have three abilities that all help maintain GL in niche ways. Yay ability bloat

[Mahrze]

...

SMNs losses are minimal and they still have a lot to bring vs other casters. MNK doesn't really have as much utility if we're to compare it like that.

Yeah, definitely during IR / Trick Attack windows and such. Gonna be fun finding the a rhythm for Monk with these changes. I'm still kinda annoyed that the GL on RoW is tied to the second tackle. I would have much preferred the second tackle just got eliminated at Wind Tackle had the GL attached. In desperate emergencies I don't much fancy changing into FoW and spamming Tackle Twice just to refresh GL at 1 second.

Oh well. What is QoL anyways. Now we have three abilities that all help maintain GL in niche ways. Yay ability bloat

At 30s CD it isn't so bad. Just the stance dance feels unecessary. I still would've preferred it as a 120s CD granting GL4 with 15% damage increase (no need for SkS buff)

Still, yes. ability bloat ftw /s xD

[wereotter]

SMNs losses are minimal and they still have a lot to bring vs other casters. MNK doesn't really have as much utility if we're to compare it like that.

This.

Also it's not just utility that's supposed to determine the amount of DPS a job should do, but it was also explicitly stated that mobility and how impacted the job is by raid mechanics would impact DPS. Considering summoner is probably the most mobile job after bard and machinist, and that their damage is pretty continuous with regard to DOTs and pets through movement phases and other general mechanics, AND they have utility in the form of devotion and raise, they should be closer to the same level of DPS as a red mage. Monks given the lower amount of utility we have, and the greater impact movement and mechanics can have on the ability to maintain greased lightning really should be in the top 3 DPS, behind samurai and black mage.

[Mahrze]

This.

Also it's not just utility that's supposed to determine the amount of DPS a job should do, but it was also explicitly stated that mobility and how impacted the job is by raid mechanics would impact DPS. Considering summoner is probably the most mobile job after bard and machinist, and that their damage is pretty continuous with regard to DOTs and pets through movement phases and other general mechanics, AND they have utility in the form of devotion and raise, they should be closer to the same level of DPS as a red mage. Monks given the lower amount of utility we have, and the greater impact movement and mechanics can have on the ability to maintain greased lightning really should be in the top 3 DPS, behind samurai and black mage.

Agreed. However we should also keep in mind that MNK has had a degree of versatility, but SE still has zero idea on how to make it work. I'd be OK with MNK having similar utility to SMN. Right now, MNK is good. Not good good, just good.

[Kaimishi]

This.
Considering summoner is probably the most mobile job after bard and machinist, and that their damage is pretty continuous with regard to DOTs and pets through movement phases and other general mechanics, AND they have utility in the form of devotion and raise, they should be closer to the same level of DPS as a red mage.

To be fair, as summoner we dont have as much mobility as you think. We have for example Bahamut during which we cant move even slightly. Also the raise is tricky, we can only raise on specific and short windows if we dont want to destroy our rotation/dps. Also smn, is very punishing because of his extremely tight rotation, you are not not allowed to die. Besides, we have to control our pet while doing all of that.

[Mahrze]

...

While SMN is not a Swiss Army Knife of support like NIN, BRD or PLD. Shiroe was pointing out how SMN and MNK are akin to BLM and SAM and should be on the a similar 2nd best personal DPS with utility. However, SMN has much more to contribute overall to the team vs MNK, this is without considering your points on not affecting your personal performance as SMN, which we could also argue the same for MNK but that would be moot if we're honest. Brotherhood is still limited by damage type (5% physical ATK, casters get nothing) vs Devotion (2% ATK, 2% DEF, 5% HEAL Magic) buff. And Mantra while being much stronger for healing it doesn't do much of helping healers with an incoming attack ever so often.

MNK is (or was) a Swiss Army Knife... of personal survival, but that also sacrifices our personal performance.

[Kaimishi]

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I quoted the text where he explains that smn dmg should be tuned down to rdm dmg because of a so called mobility and utility. About your post, I think the comparison between monk and smn is not legit. Smn is not meta, it was close to become on the 4th slot but not anymore. Besides your role is nowhere close to ours in utility (virus, apo, etc..). Also casters are rip in terms of performances.
The comparison could be made tho, if rdps was standardized, type of dmg-tied buffs removed and pt management coming back, but we're far away from that.

[Shiroe]

devtion is on a longer CD than Brotherhood..., smn will only rez with swiftcast (unless it can stop a whole wipe).., mantra's CD is being reduced..

ifrite / garuda have nice buffs, but pets die sometimes

=> mnk and smn should be on a similar footing, as blm and sam are both on a same

just before 4.2 smn was off the charts (sooo high dps + utility made smn fit in both prog and speed kill metas.. + at times highest personal dps.., guess SE saw too many players jump off smn to blm & rdm, so Smn got overbuffed.., now SE went far nerfing smn)

smn & mnk should both be equally valid in prog and speedkill pfs.., maybe smn a bit more in prog and mnk maybe a bit more in speedkills, but both still close to eachother.. (strong dps, with some utility)

just buffing mnk and a minor / middle sized smn nerf could have done the trick, but smn is getting a major nerf .. and 60 sec CD PB for mnk is a bit OP

[Zarkovitch]

We just need a better AOE rotation & qol with pots mnk is ready to be good.