4.2 Housing Update

**Mithia** · 01-20-2018 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

So hang on... those two from that one server who own an entire ward will get to keep said ward because of a technicality?

I think the amount of people complaining that they're gonna lose a neighborhood full of houses they own is simply ridiculous and hilarious at the same time.

And its that mentality which makes me support these kind of people, its nothing more then mob mentality.

These players did nothing that goes against the terms of usage! Nor should they be punished now because the mob is picking up their pitchforks and torches because "they" deem it unfair. The rules have changed, true, but that doesn't mean that players who abide by the rules have to turn in their goods. Its an oversight of the developers.

**MaikoRaines** · 01-20-2018 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mithia

And its that mentality which makes me support these kind of people, its nothing more then mob mentality.

And it's that whole narrow-minded white knight mentality that I think it's funny you can justify two people owning an entire ward. It's one thing it being 3 or 4 houses, but think back to some of the comments and reasonings why they did it.

"They didn't want people putting up gaudy looking houses next to theirs" is a quote I certainly remember as do many. It's that kind of elitist attitude that makes me laugh.

But 30 houses? An entire ward? Koji told me, to my face that the concept is ridiculous. You know how much server resources goes into a ward? Greedy to be one thing that you own an entire ward, but even greedier to let S-E pick up the bill for the resources used to house their personal little paradise? Yeah S-E screwed up, no one argues it here, but there's other people that suffer for it in turn.

But hey, yeah, lets give them a damn gated community mod so they keep the filth out of their treasured empty ward.

Also, remiss of me to say this but I represent my own thoughts. Not a mob.

It isn't anyone's fault that people like me think this all stinks. You among others however supporting that kind of person isn't mob mentality in itself? Interesting...

**Mithia** · 01-20-2018 07:13 PM

If its not said players then its other players who are using said ward, no house is left unoccupied so its really a moot point that its a waste of resources.
Said resources were allocated for housing and they are being used for housing, these houses can be freed up in the future regardless.
These players who occupied an entire ward by themselves are also a unique situation which shouldn't reflect on others who may also own multiple houses be it for RP reasons or gardening.

The fact still remains however that you would rather gloat over another their misfortune while you try to justify it with resources or other poor players who aren't able to own a house due to those evil players who managed to get an extra house!

**MaikoRaines** · 01-21-2018 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mithia

The fact still remains however that you would rather gloat over another their misfortune while you try to justify it with resources or other poor players who aren't able to own a house due to those evil players who managed to get an extra house!

Sorry, who is gloating? Me? Last I checked I didn't subject myself to an online interview with one of the internet's gutter trash magazines and give one of my reasons of "We don't want people with gaudy tastes to be our neighbors" - call it gloating or asshole-ism in its passive form. I have an FC mansion but that doesn't mean I shouldn't speak up for the less than fortunate or, "poor players" as you put it.

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

If you're trying to use white knight as an insult to bolster your argument, you have a very weak argument. There's no reason for it trying to insult people, just make your point.

Hardly an insult. More of a label. He is white knighting for these people and even advocating for those who have such crappy elitist attitudes about it. My problem with people like that is that they act and think they're better than everyone else. S-E's dumb oversight enabled this beast and now other people suffer for it.

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

As for letting people keep their plots, its the best decision for SE to make. As for letting the group on Mataeus owning most of a ward, thats just applying the same rule equally to all players...also a good decision. Removing things from players that they've invested a lot of time and gil and cash into is a bad precedent to set and one nobody should be encouraging.

A server blade alone eats up a lot of resources. I don't remember exactly what Koji told me directly when we were talking about it, but one ward alone from what I understand from personal experiences with MMOs and an extensive understanding of how the tech works could be as much as half a server blade or even a fourth of one. Those blades alone are in the thousands of dollars range. You give one person or even two people free reign to buy an entire ward and you've lost at least one fourth of your investment and on top of that, deprive other people of enjoying the game. I said earlier (though some people were more interested in not reading my entire post) that S-E is certainly a big factor to blame and they should take some form of ownership. I never said punish or strip people of those plots - give them back their investment. But at the same time, these people should of seen this coming, that S-E was going to address this sooner or later but instead they're getting the grandfather treatment and a pat on the bum for it.

TL;DR - your gil is worth shit to the actual cost of a server blade or the resources poured into running it.

Call it greed or dedication or however you paint it, but it is still greed in its form. If this is what makes them happy and accomplished, then cool. Enjoy it. The whole housing community has spawned some pretty awful people, even those awful people who have been telling those "poor people" the likes of "too bad" or "don't be so poor" - because honestly the people who have been telling off those unfortunate can just suck it.

Feel free to label that last part as an insult.

**Alien_Gamer** · 01-20-2018 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

And it's that whole narrow-minded white knight mentality that I think it's funny you can justify two people owning an entire ward. It's one thing it being 3 or 4 houses, but think back to some of the comments and reasonings why they did it.

If you're trying to use white knight as an insult to bolster your argument, you have a very weak argument. There's no reason for it trying to insult people, just make your point.

As for letting people keep their plots, its the best decision for SE to make. As for letting the group on Mataeus owning most of a ward, thats just applying the same rule equally to all players...also a good decision. Removing things from players that they've invested a lot of time and gil and cash into is a bad precedent to set and one nobody should be encouraging. Think about it, would you want SE to remove something you had payed money for? What if they next decided to remove the jump potions from the game because too many people hate it and reset anyone who had used it back to their previous level? Or how about mounts or bonding ceremonies or server transfers?

But lets do the math, there's 2880 plots now and lets say 25% of them are alts for houses that could be removed, thats 720 additional plots for approximately 8,000 people after all the others are taken up. If you assume 25% of those will go to FCs, that leaves 540 plots for individuals....or about 6% more of the population. What are the odds someone will successfully get one of those 540 plots? I'm going to say very very low and whats going to happen after? Those that didn't get a plot will complain on the forums again about not having a plot or about the mad rush to get it on release day or the lack of plots for individuals since all the 1 man +3 alt FCs bought everything on release day.

What does SE get for doing this? A PR black eye. A decrease in expected revenue because people are less confident in SE because they don't know if SE will remove their purchases now. Another segement of the population mad at them because they took away things they already earned.

There is no UP side for SE to do do this. SE is much better off spending their resources on creating more wards. Removing houses from people doesn't cure the housing issue, it doesn't even put an effective bandaid on it. It just pisses people off.

**Siniztor** · 01-21-2018 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

If you're trying to use white knight as an insult to bolster your argument, you have a very weak argument. There's no reason for it trying to insult people, just make your point.

As for letting people keep their plots, its the best decision for SE to make. As for letting the group on Mataeus owning most of a ward, thats just applying the same rule equally to all players...also a good decision. Removing things from players that they've invested a lot of time and gil and cash into is a bad precedent to set and one nobody should be encouraging. Think about it, would you want SE to remove something you had payed money for? What if they next decided to remove the jump potions from the game because too many people hate it and reset anyone who had used it back to their previous level? Or how about mounts or bonding ceremonies or server transfers?

But lets do the math, there's 2880 plots now and lets say 25% of them are alts for houses that could be removed, thats 720 additional plots for approximately 8,000 people after all the others are taken up. If you assume 25% of those will go to FCs, that leaves 540 plots for individuals....or about 6% more of the population. What are the odds someone will successfully get one of those 540 plots? I'm going to say very very low and whats going to happen after? Those that didn't get a plot will complain on the forums again about not having a plot or about the mad rush to get it on release day or the lack of plots for individuals since all the 1 man +3 alt FCs bought everything on release day.

What does SE get for doing this? A PR black eye. A decrease in expected revenue because people are less confident in SE because they don't know if SE will remove their purchases now. Another segement of the population mad at them because they took away things they already earned.

There is no UP side for SE to do do this. SE is much better off spending their resources on creating more wards. Removing houses from people doesn't cure the housing issue, it doesn't even put an effective bandaid on it. It just pisses people off.

Very well said..but i think that 25% is a tad high since theres 302,000 NA accounts an only 360,000 (on 24 servers) characters total...i know tons and tons of people who have alot of lvl 1's on differnt servers to see friends or weddings n such so the number of the 60k extra characters who are at 50 and able to buy a house on each server is extremly low im betting

**Penthea** · 01-21-2018 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

And it's that whole narrow-minded white knight mentality that I think it's funny you can justify two people owning an entire ward. It's one thing it being 3 or 4 houses, but think back to some of the comments and reasonings why they did it.

Whether a player agrees or not that previous purchases should be grandfathered, I think we can all agree that the situation over those two players on Mateus would be very interesting to look at if SE doesn't force them to let go of their excess housing. It's one thing to own three or four houses. It's another if only two players own a ward.

I hear rumours that SE said they will one day let all characters on a single server have access to one character's private house. Perhaps this is when SE will clamp down on those with several personal houses on one server, so that no player will have a character suddenly become homeless.

I hope this happens because in the long run it makes more sense and it is more fair if all players are subject to the same restrictions. And honestly I'd love my alts to have access to my main's house.

**AriesMouse** · 01-21-2018 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

And it's that whole narrow-minded white knight mentality that I think it's funny you can justify two people owning an entire ward. It's one thing it being 3 or 4 houses, but think back to some of the comments and reasonings why they did it.

My biggest issue with people crying about the Ward 12 pair, is that those same people are completely content to ignore the dozens upon dozens of people that own houses, and do nothing at all with them, and that isn't even counting house flippers.Hate them as much as you want for having obtained something great, while breaking no rules, but you can't ever say that they aren't doing anything with that ward. Every house they have finished decorating has been made open to the public, and they openly encourage people to visit them, to host events in them, and to RP in those houses ( I've spent over 6 hours doing just that with my FC over the last couple evenings. ) They are also frequently editing the decorations, updating and changing things. The ward itself is like a living breathing organism, every week you could go through and find something new or different, and as someone who is actually on the server with that ward(Most the people I see complaining, surprisingly don't have Mateus marked as their realm on here), I can say it would honestly be a tragedy to lose it.

That being said, I feel like they should focus more on addressing issues with house flippers, or people just holding onto houses, but doing literally nothing with them, beyond just running inside once a month to reset the auto demo timer. And before anyone comes at me with the "You have no right to say how people should use their houses", when it is dealing with such a finite resource like this, yes, yes people can say how that finite resource should be used, and people do all the time, like those screaming about multi-home owners. I would much rather see 2 people own an entire ward, and actually do something with it, than see the mass of people owning 1 house, and doing nothing with it.

I think a good balance would be to, at least going forward, put a price on buying houses for alts. Similar to getting retainers, add a higher fee to a person's subscription if they want to own more than one personal home, that way, they are literally helping to pay for the resources it takes to maintain the housing system.

**Alien_Gamer** · 01-21-2018 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by AriesMouse

And before anyone comes at me with the "You have no right to say how people should use their houses", when it is dealing with such a finite resource like this, yes, yes people can say how that finite resource should be used,

No, you don't. It doesn't matter how much you like or dislike what someone chooses to do with their house, you do NOT get a say in what they do with it. It doesn't matter if the person just wants it for the cheaper teleport or just for a garden plot, or a stable or even just a place to call theirs, you do NOT get a say in what they do with it.

That housing is a scarce commodity is irrelevant to this. No player should ever have a say in what another player does with the things they acquire in the game. The only exception to this is harassment and even then you don't get a say beyond reporting it to the GMs and letting them decide.

**Genpai** · 01-21-2018 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

No, you don't. It doesn't matter how much you like or dislike what someone chooses to do with their house, you do NOT get a say in what they do with it. It doesn't matter if the person just wants it for the cheaper teleport or just for a garden plot, or a stable or even just a place to call theirs, you do NOT get a say in what they do with it.

That housing is a scarce commodity is irrelevant to this. No player should ever have a say in what another player does with the things they acquire in the game. The only exception to this is harassment and even then you don't get a say beyond reporting it to the GMs and letting them decide.

Still everyone has the right to make their opinion heard about what they THINK should happen to that housing, and that's what happening here, no one is dictating policy, just making suggestions in more, or less, eloquent ways. it's up to the devs if they agree or not.

So yes, everyone has a right to say what they want, just like you have the right to disagree.

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