Just played Final Fantasy XI

[ManuelBravo]

*snort* please...

The game has evolved so more people can play it (i.e. buy it).

Was the same as FFXI it was easy to play, easy to buy. More people can play just hated the grind graphics.

[Rufalus]

snip

When XIV was directed by XI's Tanaka, it had things like that, airships on a schedule. You could sit at the docks, western thanalan, and watch the ferry get closer as it arrived to take you to la noscea. After Yoshida took charge there was still dynamic events at least until the end of v1 since they were preparing for permanent changes and could throw out the rulebook. Each patch things would get a little crazier as Garlean airships soared overhead, Dalamud got a little closer to impact, spacetime rips opened up with higher frequency making even sanctuaries no longer safe from voidal creatures. Of course now we're back to the world being frozen in time apart from what happens in cutscenes.

[silverlunarfox]

Was the same as FFXI it was easy to play, easy to buy. More people can play just hated the grind graphics.

It wasn't as friendly as you think. But not everything is to start. That's why it changes and grows, hence why we now have XIV. It also wasn't that easy to buy XI, as I found out when I tried getting a copy for my xbox. But I mean, it was for xbox....

While it's fine to like and enjoy XI it doesn't mean people who prefer XIV are wrong. It's simply personal choice. They aren't snowflakes. Theyre just people with varying tastes.

Grinds are fine, but sometimes not enjoying the grind is fine too. Which is why MMO's should have options to appeal to multiple player bases. My loves/hates of both XI and XIV aside, both are fine games in their own right.

[Skivvy]

Nope this is more towards the people that complain that content is too hard and complaining within the first week and really don't know or understand what a TRUE grind is. If it hits someones nerve I would wonder why.

I feel like I should be chiming in how I had to walk to school - uphill - in the snow, both ways, with no shoes right about now

For better or worse, MMOs have changed significantly in the last 10+ years. You can still find some that provide more of a challenge if that's your thing, although it is getting more difficult. I don't think you can really fault people if they've only ever known MMOs from the XIV generation. Then there are those who may just prefer the current pacing with the game for numerous other reasons.

I personally feel SE took the extra-safe path with XIV. Understandable since their financial situation had been a wreck prior to the relaunch. But still, it's a very safe, very much wants to hold your hand and to ensure that no one gets left behind type of game.

[ManuelBravo]

....
I personally feel SE took the extra-safe path with XIV. Understandable since their financial situation had been a wreck prior to the relaunch. But still, it's a very safe, very much wants to hold your hand and to ensure that no one gets left behind type of game.

Look FFXI had issues were team work was needed, it was a must. People complained about the XP grind and when they designed FFXIV they had that in mind. XP was a lot easier. WAY WAY easier. Now the people still complained, hunts, xp books were added...what happened? it's still too hard....ok Oh look xp / jump potions....what happened? oh we can only do it on only one job -.-... see where I am going on with this? Lets skip ahead to present time.... Savage is too hard -.-....well no kidding their is a reason why it's call savage.

Relics, IF you ever did relic weapons on FFXI you would understand what a grind really is. Specially if you were one of the ones that started early. In FFXIV just about anyone can make a relic pretty fast. Just like in any other online game / gaming console cash shops are where extra income comes from and SE has the right mind set for business, lets make money. Lets face it that is the number one rule of a business.

As for my comment on generation wanting a trophy for trying...come on... I'm sure you can how people complain for just about everything. The job is not balanced...yeah and they don't know how to use CD. Items / lights for relics take for ever...even after being nerfed... PvP is unfair too many bots....Housing is unfair I have a life and can't camp on new plot release...the list can go on and on and on. Hence they cupcake /snowflake/ everyone gets a trophy for trying generation. So yes I stick by my comment.

[Enkidoh]

Things like the awful EXP loss penalty on death that would even level you backwards if you were unlucky to die while being too close to the previous level still EXP wise (you lost 10% of the total exp needed for the next level when you died, raising gave some of that lost exp back), enemies being ridiculously dangerous even for minor trash mob wildlife like rabbits and yet giving minuscule EXP for it, having to party for everything and even then certain content pretty much restricting party make up to certain Jobs, airships running on tight schedules that all too often would result in players missing one by the skin of their teeth and then having to waste 10+ minutes of real time sitting doing nothing on the dock waiting for the next one, people abusing NIN as a subjob for Utsusemi thinking it made them invincible and then not accepting that it didn't (and thus leaving WHMs like me to have to raise them for their stupidity), no minimap, quest journal that was virtually useless and told you nothing about what you needed to do for a quest (thus forcing you to look online for the (often misleading, incomplete or inaccurate) information, important quests (even main scenario ones) that were locked behind invisible 'fame' counters for each city that forced you to do thousands of pointless fetch quests just to 'build up fame', need I go on?

The game hasn't been like that for like, how many years? You're bashing the game for something that doesn't exist anymore.

Actually apart from most of the game is now soloable and no longer requiring parties to accomplish anything (apart from the Seekers of Adoulin and Rhapsodies of Vana'diel missions and current endgame content) due to a combination of the level cap being increased to 99, solo-orientated levelling content and most importantly, the Trust NPC system being added (probably the most important and welcomed change made to the game), said NPC system basically spitting in the face of the established 'must use this and this Job in that battle to succeed' strategy, and the 'EXP loss on death' being mostly neutered (EXP is no longer lost if you die under under level 50, and the amount you lose above that is greatly reduced), everything else I mentioned is still applicable even to the game as it is now.

Enemies are still dangerous to new/low level players (although the level cap increase means most overworld enemies are less intimidating than they used to be at high levels, some will still agro even a level 99 player in some of the more outlying areas). Airships still run on set timetables and still require you to waste time waiting at the dock for the next one if you're unlucky to miss is (and in fact, with the addition of easy home-point teleportation airships are now completely redundant, thus making it even more annoyingly apparent). People still abuse Utsusemi thinking it makes them invincible and then whine when a mob tears through their shadows and kills them in one hit (and then blames the healer for it). There is still no minimap (although the on-screen compass now shows npcs and enemies on it). Quest journal is still completely worthless. Quests and missions are still locked behind the fame counters that require you to do monotonous tasks like trading hundreds of cabbages just to unlock them.

I admit that although I am somewhat jaded by FFXI, again I must stress that I do love FFXI still (and the major changes and additions to the game over the past four or so years (many of which copied actually from FFXIV!) have only improved it considerably). It's just the harsh, unforgiving approach to gameplay I endured in it's 'prime' and that it's now greatly aging design and core systems show just how much of an anachronism the game is now fundamentally, a legacy from an earlier time when MMORPGs required enormous player investment, a time that gaming has thankfully moved on from, and which FFXIV is an example of what MMORPGs are now expected to be like.

[Justuas]

Airships still run on set timetables and still require you to waste time waiting at the dock for the next one. Quests and missions are still locked behind the fame counters that require you to do monotonous tasks like trading hundreds of cabbages just to unlock them. People still abuse Utsusemi thinking it makes them invincible and then whine when a mob tears through their shadows and kills them in one hit (and then blames the healer for it). (more coming)

Actually there are very few reasons to use airships anymore. The fame requirements for quests and missions have been nerfed. Utsusemi isn't a thing anymore and you can only abuse it in a few NMs. Agreed on the quest journal part but you use wiki anyway.

[ApprenticeSmithy]

I've not been able to play FF XI, but from what I've heard about it, it sounds like it was a very good game. I've only a little gameplay of XI, and everything seems so... big, and grand. Things like having to travel in groups (harder monsters and the like) and large open world things to do is something I would've really like to see in XIV.

Ah well, I can dream can't I? XD

[Moomba33]

I've been playing XI casually since last August to get through the storylines. I'm partway through Wings of the Goddess at the moment.

It has really made me appreciate XIV more. There are just so many small inconveniences like having to manually move gear into your Mog Wardrobe or trade Crystals to Ephemeral Moogles instead of them automatically going into the right storage. Also a pain having to have a wiki open at all times to figure out how to progress.

I think most of the Airship and Ferry rides can be avoided now with the Unity teleport system. I haven't used it though since I've been trying to visit each zone for the first time by old methods so I have a better feel for the layout of the world.
In any case most areas have fast travel options now through Home Point or Survival Guide teleportation so you only have to reach them the long way once.

All that being said I am enjoying the stories the game has to share. FF never disappoints me with its music and world and XI is no exception. Eorzea will always feel more like home (regardless of quality it has first MMO nostalgia on its side) but I like Vana'diel as well.

[Kazrah]

I feel like I should be chiming in how I had to walk to school - uphill - in the snow, both ways, with no shoes right about now

This is pretty much how I treat anyone rambling on about XI and about how things were better in XI and blah, blah, blah. It's kinda like listening to some old fart ramble on about the Cold War and it's being drowned out by that voice in your head screaming "OMG, NO ONE CARES!!"

Sure, XI had its share of good ideas and even had its share of new ones like Puppetmaster, a job which had never been completely present in any Final Fantasy game made prior to it. XIV deserves those same liberties as well in being able to offer its share of new ideas, but because of people calling out for stuff they wanted from XI that bars any new ideas from adequately presenting themselves in a positive light. In fact, I'm almost entirely convinced that it's because of how Blue Mage worked in XI and all the players that want stuff like it was in XI that we're never going to see it in XIV.

I'm sure XI had its share of nostalgia and fun memories to be had along with a number of ideas that have inspired some of my job concepts. Unfortunately though, profit comes before difficulty, as is the way of MMORPGs marketed in capitalist societies, hence why XI's outdated brand of masochistic grinding stays rightfully in the past.