Is it maybe time for a full infrastructure rebuild? (Re: Database and netcode issues)

[Tridus]

Well I'm no programmer but maybe the reason why wow can store glamour appearances and FFXIV can't is because wow has an ancient engine that retains some assets from the freakin WarCraft III engine. All that gear might not ammount to that many data,

The server doesn't care what the glamour looks like. If you've unlocked it or not is a boolean value: true or false (1 or 0 to the processor & database). That's true no matter what it is. Set aside a 1KB chunk of space for every character, use a bitmask, and you can store if they've unlocked 8192 glamour items. That's how the crafting and gathering logs know every item you've made/gathered at least once to give you an unlock bonus.

(I am a programmer.)

[Enla]

Honestly given the monumental issues that have come up that are always blamed on the coding or server issues, and by the creators no less, I'd be entirely fine skipping a patch cycle or two for them to revamp the system. Though ideally I'd prefer they hire a temporary team alongside the main one to handle it and push the whole thing out with the next expansion instead.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Honestly given the monumental issues that have come up that are always blamed on the coding or server issues, and by the creators no less, I'd be entirely fine skipping a patch cycle or two for them to revamp the system. Though ideally I'd prefer they hire a temporary team alongside the main one to handle it and push the whole thing out with the next expansion instead.

"You agree wholeheartedly withe Odile Delacroix"

[Vstarstruck]

In which there would be a new numbered FF MMO. It would be far easier to just focuson a new game during the other's end of life than rebuild it at this point. Since it's not at its end of life yet, why would they divert the resources to it?

Also you can't compare this to wow. Blizzard works on a select few games. They have larger budgets and resources because of this. Square Enix is not just FFXIV. Square Enix has multiple teams working on multiple games. I feel they move alot of time, resources and cash inbetween all of their projects for better and for worse.

Remember they revamped this game, but had little to no expectations of it succeeding. I think that's where a lot of the old coding and database issues stem from. Why pour money into something that could still largely fail like 1.0 did? Yes that decision is biting them in the butt now, but in the end, they did a good job with what they had for it to get this far.

My guess they did 1.0 to 2.0 as more as a salvage operation since they did not know how well or bad the new version would do, so a limited budget is justified, and that brings in trying shortcuts.

But now that it is well funded, and people are spending money on the game, still running on those shortcuts is not justified.

Honestly given the monumental issues that have come up that are always blamed on the coding or server issues, and by the creators no less, I'd be entirely fine skipping a patch cycle or two for them to revamp the system. Though ideally I'd prefer they hire a temporary team alongside the main one to handle it and push the whole thing out with the next expansion instead.

Just as long as they do it, i mean it seems really needed this point, esp to make full use of a 5.0+

The OP's post really hits the nail on the head. SE rushed the hell out of their database and netcoding design process when they were making 2.0. And if they don't spend some time getting their act together, the whole thing is just going to collapse in on itself someday.

Main worry, def^

[RukiaFae]

snip

I’m sorry I didn play during 1.0 so I\\'m not sure of the exact time line and details but I'm pretty 1.0 was down for a few months prior 2.0. They could have did a complete overhaul during this time but the choose not for some reason. This was the best time in the cycle to do it.

They are going to have to cut resources and stop the patches we are getting now to focus on this one issue, then the game will have to be down for some time to implement and test everything. People complain about 24 hr main. It is not worth it to start over this late in the game when the game is this successful. They would rather work on the issues slowly, fixing what they can, while pumping out content to keep people subbed and attract new players.

Major overhauls take time, money, and lots of planning that they would rather invest in new expansions. When the system cant handle the game they will create a new MMO.

[RukiaFae]

This.

It's not going to be an option, and we're going to hit the point where they'll need to start deleting expansion items from the game to make room for new ones.

Remember that chest piece appearance you're so fond of? Better not get too attached to it...

Now you're being dramatic. That's not going to happen. You're trying to cause panic where there is none. Just like any other game once this game hits it's max of where they want to take it, it will fade over time while they create a new game. For example FFXI which is still active.

[Callinon]

Now you're being dramatic. That's not going to happen. You're trying to cause panic where there is none. Just like any other game once this game hits it's max of where they want to take it, it will fade over time while they create a new game. For example FFXI which is still active.

FFXI is still adding new content and items with every patch (monthly). Also a lot of FFXI's "technical limitations" turned out to not really be limitations once the dev team stopped making excuses and started finding solutions.

Maybe the OP is being a little dramatic, but their point is 100% on target. The number of times Yoshi P has come out and said they can't do some basic expansion of a particular in-game system after only 2 expansions is, frankly, alarming. Do you remember back in 2.0 when SE said your entire character data including all your retainers is sent to the server every 15 seconds and that's why they couldn't expand retainer storage? The number of cut corners and band-aids revealed in that statement alone made alarm bells go off in my programmer brain. And that was in 2.0. What happens in 7.0?

The point is this needs to be addressed now while it's a manageable problem and not later when it's a behemoth of a problem.

[Darrcyphfeid]

Just throwing it out there that SE as a whole still hasn't recovered from XIV 1.0 and Fabula Nova Crystallis (XIII/XV).

Would the game be better off with some overhauling? Yup. Will it actually happen? Nope.

[Sebazy]

IMHO, both of these backend issues stem from the same core issue:

SE have historically shown that they are hugely adverse to anything that could potentially inflate server costs beyond the bare minimum.

This extends to both CPU power (which defines the slow tick rate, it's also visible in the sluggish manner in which aoe effects appear to radiate outwards) as well as storage (FFXI's efforts to skimp on every last MB were legendary, even going so far as to prune inactive characters from the live servers after a certain amount of time, a move which likely actually cost them a considerable amount of return custom before they implemented a come back campaign of sorts).

IMHO the only way SE will truly get FFXIV's back end performance on a par with WoW would be to go poach some of Blizzard's talent whilst also investing in much more capable server hardware. That is never happening for a multitude of reasons.

Don't buy into the nonsense that this game is hitting the limits of how scalable it's back end is because that just isn't the case, whilst I raised my doubts about the performance and reliability of this game's infrastructure at ARR's release, no one could argue with how well it scaled once SE managed to fish the chequebook out of the piranha pool. You'd think that someone at SE loses their life every time they add another spindle to the server rack, that's how adverse they are to it.

[RichardButte]

Pretty much!

The bean counters are pretty much everyone's worst enemy, be you a creator or consumer

Heh, funny story: I actually saw an accountant post on a game forum and ask that people stop blaming them. He was all "We just tell them how much money we made. We don't tell anyone how they should go about making it. Please stop blaming us and blame the executives who actually make these decisions!"