Please make it a requirement to level PLD or/and Warrior before accessing Dark Knight

[Hasrat]

If they are a bad tank as a DRK, what makes you think they'll be any better with any other tank job?

If DRK is the job that appeals to them, and it's one they genuinely want to play, maybe they'll actually be more receptive to learning how to play it well.

DRK is no more difficult than any other tank to learn.

[Khel]

Don't think we want to do anything that results in less tanks in the game.

[Dualgunner]

Were this post made back on hw launch I might have agreed since if you played DRK without first playing WAR and PLD, you were missing vital tanking tools. Now?

No. Starting tanking at 30 and starting at 15 (first dungeon) is not significantly different. Way I hear it as a neat tidbit, world first ultimate Dark Knight was only ever a DRK for tanking, never touched the others.

[WhyAmIHere]

Were this post made back on hw launch I might have agreed since if you played DRK without first playing WAR and PLD, you were missing vital tanking tools. Now?

No. Starting tanking at 30 and starting at 15 (first dungeon) is not significantly different. Way I hear it as a neat tidbit, world first ultimate Dark Knight was only ever a DRK for tanking, never touched the others.

Eh, a tad inaccurate. They had the three tanks leveled, but not to max, nor was tanking their main thing at the time of being asked to tank for their team.

[Dualgunner]

I blame hearsay lol. Thank you for the correction though.

[ArianeEwah]

The problem is not just DRK or tanking in general, but for ALL classes and jobs.

In this game you start with a class, get to Sastasha by MSQ and run your first dungeon. There is no restriction, e.g. finish 'hall of novice' and/or your class quest first and no required item level. You just jump in like that.

Something equal happened to me the very first time I ran the Stone Vigil in 3.x with PLD. Your level 40 job quest gives access to Shield Oath. Well... I forgot it and healer left almost immediately - through it was unreasonable, because I had HQ lvl 40 gear and could hold aggro nevertheless. My FC mates suggested to finish my job quest before entering a second time.

I also had a newcomer/returning player tank in sastasha with 'disciple of war' and low level tank gear (~ØiLvl 10 left side, NQ, mix of both - tank and 'disciple of war').
Less HP than a caster, and squishy as f*** - he had just enough defense and HP to get hit twice! Any third hit or even a crit hit could kill him. I even ended up letting him die twice because I underestimated the hits and didn't heal every hit (which would have/has been necessary).

So... why are there no restrictions before you enter the next stage (dungeon/trial), except reaching the class/job level?

Why are you not getting taught ingame, when to turn off your tank stance, how your (no-enmity) combo/rotation looks like, when to use defensive cooldowns etc. etc. - seriously, even through this game is so 'old' and we are so far advanced now, I still see off-tanks in tank stance spaming enmity combos only, like thier whole hotbar contains just 4 buttons - enmity combo + tank stance! How is this still possible?

In 'hall of novice' newcomer tanks are getting taught how to avoid AoE, pick up packs and getting aggro in general, BUT they are NOT getting taught how to turn packs/boss away from party, adjust to mates running behind them (tank), using cooldowns for tankbuster or multiple attacks like in mass pulls. There is no explanation when to use enmity/single target combo, AoE or DPS combo - once aquired - or to swift aggro to other tank, e.g. by using Shirk (esp. for PLD at level 50).

Why not something like a 'hall of novice'/tutorial for new learned skills, e.g. 'Cover'.
Think of something like this:
'In this scenario, one of your teammates will get the attack target of your enemy. It will cast a hard hitting skill at the same time. Use 'Cover' on the targeted teammate to take the damage instead and use 'Provoke' to get back on top of enmity list. If a teammate is killed, this duty is failed.'

Or other scenarios in which you have to deal with an overhealing healer without tank stance, teammates running behind you and getting cleaved by enemies if not adjusted etc. There are tons of possibilities, not all are necessary tho.

And why not the same for healer and DPS roles?
E.g. for healer: 'The tank will get constantly hit. Keep his HP between 25% and 99%. If you reach 100% three times in 60 seconds, this duty is failed.' The amount of damage the tank receives is fixed, as are your heals. To see HP in %, you can go to... [and so on]
To teach healers not to overheal.

E.g. for MCH, to optimice damage: 'Keep your 'Hot Shot' buff up, but don't use the skill itself too many times. You will fight 5 minutes and you can use 'Hot Shot' 6 times. If you lose the 'Hot Shot' buff or used 'Hot Shot' more than 6 times, this duty is failed.' - Maybe even more advanced, e.g. use Wildfire at least 4 times, with at least 3 attacks hitting while it is active.

I know this is a MMO, there are people that should help you or you can always search for yourself to get better. Yet, this should not be the case for basics.
Right now, you can only vote kick every century, if said person doesn't want to learn, is stubborn or is just bad through and through. Even if you manage to kick this person, worst case would be either you get another bad player or wait for eternity.

I will repeat myself: Neither DRK nor tanking in general is not the problem, it's the mindset of players. Yet, you can't really blame them, cause they were never taught the 'real basics'.

[Ekimmak]

*ideas for more training missions*

Hall of the Veteran, I guess?

I mean, I'd say that it's ok to overheal when a tankbuster is incoming, since you can't be certain what sort of cooldowns are being used, but yeah, the more advanced tactics of the game probably need to be taught. I think the class stories used to have a bit of a class-specific tutorial to them, but the problem is, it wasn't as detailed as it should have been, nor as obvious (how many people just skip over conversations not realising that it's actually very important information?)

[Marianno]

I have to say, that after leveling PLD/WAR to 70 and now leveling DRK, I have learned a few things. As. PLD/WAR, I feel like I can pull a generous amount of enemies and survive with little healing. With DRK, I learned I need to be more careful and attentive. Even as a healer, with a DRK as my tank, I still play safe always. My point is, leveling PLD/WAR to 50 first did not prepare me well for leveling/playing DRK. In fact, while leveling my DRK, I still always look to veteran DRK tanks for advice on the job. It is better to teach people instead of trying to set stricter parameters. As others have said, this game does not do a good job teaching you how to play the job but to fill in that gap, I look to more experienced players for help. Just my opinion.

[Ash_]

I have no problem with people choosing whichever tank they choose to play as first so long as they take the time to level it from scratch and learn it.

My bigger issue is with jump potion tanks without any experience... whether its PLD/WAR/DRK it doesn't matter, they are a nightmare. Tank jump potions should not be accessible at all without the player having at least levelled one tank up to 50 first. Unfortunately its very common on my JP data centre, and its not that simple to give them feedback here; different culture and of course the language barrier.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

LOL

Wrong.....hell no.

I picked Dark Knight first as a tank...and I don't regret skipping paladin/warrior.
Is a blast to tank with..and I figured it out.

You should take the time to teach....don't fix something that isn't broken.