An Alternative? to parsers..

[RiyahArp]

I don't even think its about needing a parser. Its really about being able to kick when using one. If SE just said "we wont ban based on complaints about dps" watch the parser talk dry up instantly. because most people probably wouldn't even use the official parser if they made one

Once again, you are posting a worst case scenario situation.

The one thing that would make me pause about this was "skip soar."That was a pretty nasty time, and given how much of this game is individual encounters all it would take is one or two to set the playerbase off. Remember people fleeing to Gilg in order to get clears for Creator, too. Then again, I don't trust people in groups much at all; just as individuals they do ok.

Let me ask you this, you do savage? If not, why would it matter to you if parser happens or not? Second, if you do savage, you find out (lets say they did use a parser) and you are a DPS and doing as much as a tank, what would you think then? Is it acceptable doing lower than a tank or as much? or would you think you have to improve?

If you have to use a third party program to get accurate feedback on how you are doing, let alone play the job "correctly" enough to beat raiding content, the game has failed in its design. The whole DPS check thing is crappy game design too, there just to put an artificial, obscured time limit to prevent instances from being overbooked and to punish zombying. As for doing less than a tank, I could tell with no parser, because generally if you try and do less, you are dead incredibly often. You don't do that much less if you try and understand the mechanics. For savage I only started doing it in SB out of sheer boredom, and had O1s and Susano ex clears as healer. I don't bother farming it, because healing neither is like pulling teeth compared to dps and tanking.

[akaneakki]

I don't even think its about needing a parser..

Do you know why skip soar was a thing? Because people couldn't do the mechanic. Look at people who are way behind on raids, they usually have highest current ilvl to try beat them, because mechanic skips and enrage timer. Then you have people who delay as much as 1-2 patches later to try beat it and yet they can't becuse mechanics are in the way, people will ALWAYS think ilvl etc will help you skip certain mechanics, which it can provide with, but to a certain degree. You need to know how to play and that's how it works. Most groups I reached soar with could never even do the mechanics right so everyone wanted to skip it.
You see it everywhere in PF. ''High dps only'' sets ilvl 334 for shinryu extreme and their dps is weaker than a guy whos ilvl 225. Many players are delaying on content or waiting for highlvl just because they can't do mechanics, so skipping as much as they can always been a thing.

[KaivaC]

snip

To add onto this, there are still lvl 70 DPS players who are in ilvl320 gear who are utterly unable to skip soar in an unsynced run against Zurvan. If it's a full party of 8, with 4 ilvl 320 DPS, and those four cannot push out enough damage to skip soar, it's a huge, huge problem and it's totally on those players. And the sad thing is, they don't see nothing wrong with what they're doing. I know this because I encountered this very issue when trying to unlock my mentor roulettes a couple months back.

[RiyahArp]

Do you know why skip soar was a thing? Because people couldn't do the mechanic..

No, because raiders wanted to single heal zurvan to farm him, and you needed to skip soar to have the DPS to be able to do fast farm runs and be able to do so. You can do the mechanic if you practice it enough; but once people cleared they didn't want to practice it or do it the slow way; they wanted high dps and soar was an easy sign of it. It became a meme because of that; the JP actually didn't skip soar as their base strat and beat him fine.

You mean who am I to challenge your right to make an opinion? Well I can answer that easily. It doesn't make much sense if the content we are discussing doesn't really even involve you in the first place.

people here are asking to change content for everyone else based on their desires in savage, its fair to have an opinion on that. Especially if it involves making content harder; that wont affect the savage players as much as the casuals.

[akaneakki]

No, because raiders wanted to single heal zurvan to farm him, and you needed to skip soar to have the DPS to be able to do fast farm runs and be able to do so. Y

I've seen ONLY 1 or 2 solo heal farm groups and some couldn't even skip zurvan, did those 1 solo healer zurvan groups exist alot of? Nope, I was playing very very actively around that time too. Ofc if you farm a fight you should be avaible to be confident enough to do it faster and more effective, pushing your damage etc, that's why it's called farm. Some people who wanted to farm couldn't do the mecahnics and that's why many expected it to be skipped. I can legit say back then 3 out of 8 players in most groups couldn't do it right and we wiped. But JP players actually RESPECT their fellow members. They use most of the time PF to practice and DF to kill or was it the opposite? I forgot. Anyways, they are more respectful towards others, while on this side of the world we have too many players who don't give a damn. You see it still today, people say farm and barely know how to perform the fight. They expect too much of others but we can't do the same.

[RiyahArp]

I've seen ONLY 1 or 2 solo heal farm groups and some couldn't even skip zurvan

The thing is, it doesn't even have to be in reality. It can be perception. Everyone was like "omg, its not hard, just do a basic opener" and yet from the sheer salt apparently 75% of people who did ex trials failed at doing a basic opener. Its like ice mages; I've been playing this game for nigh on 3 years now and I've never even seen one, yet its the go to example whenevr ppl talk about bad dps.

[Miracle_Diva]

Its like ice mages; I've been playing this game for nigh on 3 years now and I've never even seen one, yet its the go to example whenevr ppl talk about bad dps.

Oh they are real and there're plenty of them if you pay attention ofc, and they don't care about your tips. This guy never used fire IV for the entire dungeon. He was spamming freeze, blizz1 and 3 all day long with some fire 2 on every single mob.

[akaneakki]

Oh they are real and there're plenty of them if you pay attention ofc, and they don't care about your tips. This guy never used fire IV for the entire dungeon. He was spamming freeze all day long with some fire 2 on every single mob.

They exist, like a lot of them.

[Tridus]

The thing is, it doesn't even have to be in reality. It can be perception. Everyone was like "omg, its not hard, just do a basic opener" and yet from the sheer salt apparently 75% of people who did ex trials failed at doing a basic opener. Its like ice mages; I've been playing this game for nigh on 3 years now and I've never even seen one, yet its the go to example whenevr ppl talk about bad dps.

Here's one doing less than 200 DPS in Rabanastre, although I think they did use a fire spell.

https://youtu.be/wAJ9InV3-MI

Enjoy!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, because raiders wanted to single heal zurvan to farm him, and you needed to skip soar to have the DPS to be able to do fast farm runs and be able to do so. You can do the mechanic if you practice it enough; but once people cleared they didn't want to practice it or do it the slow way; they wanted high dps and soar was an easy sign of it. It became a meme because of that; the JP actually didn't skip soar as their base strat and beat him fine.

Unlike some people, I actually participate in this content. The sheer amount of people who couldn't do Soar, let alone had the DPS to skip it, was staggering. Plenty of groups with five and even six DPS still couldn't skip. Zurvan demonstrated just how many people cannot perform a basic rotation. He literally did next to nothing prior to Soar. Negligible auto-attacks and telegraphed aoes. Anyone with knowledge of the fight and their job should have skipped Soar. The check to do so was incredibly lenient. Regardless, if people advertised a "Skip Soar" farm party and you join yet have nowhere near the DPS to adequately skip. Why are you there in the first place? You aren't entitled to farming birds because you want one. The group clearly labeled their expectations and you didn't meet them.

I'll acknowledge doing the actual mechanic wasn't a big deal, but the meme originated due to how easy skipping Soar was with decent players. Not orange, top tier raiders. Just players who could perform a proper opener, healers that actually turned on Cleric Stance and tanks that didn't hug their tank stance.