An Alternative? to parsers..

[Yeol]

In the end, there's really only two types of players - those who feel entitled to decide who is good and who is bad according to their own stardards because... reasons..., and those who don't. And in the first group you will find people who are worried other people might not find out how GOOD they are, and so they desperately need a parser so everybody else will have to kneel before them because of how extremely awesome they play.

Very funny.
A good player does not need a parser to show off how good they are, they just show their Savage gear and Ultimate title

Believe it or not, good players are the ones with decent attitude. Bad players are the ones playing victims to everything and attacking the good players.

Stop making 'harassment' an excuse.
People run into low-performance players EVERYDAY and say nothing to them because its just duty finder.

But people want to hold players responsible for their low-performance at high endgame content (Extream/Savage/Ultimate).
Is that considered harassment?
Do you prefer that we ignore the bad players and just keep wiping content until they get bored and leave?

Is wasting everyones else time considered OK? /think

[JunseiKei]

This needs to stop being quoted. I may make an entire thread dedicated to this in the future if I keep seeing it. Lets review the reasons why this is honestly just the dumbest argument against parsers...

1. The comment people are quoting is years old. Opinions change.
2. Not everything Yoshi says is true forever - let's talk about how FC and personal housing were supposed to remain separate or how we were never supposed to have auto-demolition.
3. Yoshi's priorities as a game developer are different than anyone playing this game. He wants your money and also the money of a ton of other extremely casual players. If people are getting told they suck after every dungeon they might not enjoy playing as much which means parsers/this grading idea could lose him business.
4. Yoshi's opinion doesn't matter when it comes to in-game culture. We create the culture. Why is Balmung the rp hub? Why are there player-created rules against recruiting in the NN on some worlds? Why have the dev team been forced to tacitly allow parsers on a 'dont ask dont tell' basis? Because players decided these things entirely independent of dev intervention.

Just... just stop this. It is pointless. So obviously pointless.

One of the last interviews recently to ask Yoshida about parsers, to which a friend was one of the lucky few to be present, he said Yoshida's face went serious and said, in firm English, "No." That same friend wants in game parsers and he pretty much said, yeah, we're not going to get them just from how Yoshida answered, it's beating a dead horse.

Also, the in game culture stuff you quote is stuff not supported by SE. If it ever interfered with SE's business, they'd ban it. As it is with parsers; you get caught talking about it in game and get reported, you get suspended.

Right now, Yoshida's stance is very anti- parser.

People run into low-performance players EVERYDAY and say nothing to them because its just duty finder.

But people want to hold low-performance players responsible for their mistakes at high endgame content (Extream/Savage/Ultimate).
Is that considered harassment?
Do you prefer that we ignore the bad players and just keep wiping content until they get bored and leave?

Is wasting everyones else time considered OK? /think

Honestly, I'd sooner adopt the JP style of things: if you can't clear the content after so many tries, disband. It's not like I could help someone improve if they play a class I'm not good at, so even if I wanted to help them, I couldn't. However, I also don't want my own time wasted. Just appeals to me as it doesn't break ToS and my own time wasn't wasted.

[Tridus]

Honestly, I'd sooner adopt the JP style of things: if you can't clear the content after so many tries, disband. It's not like I could help someone improve if they play a class I'm not good at, so even if I wanted to help them, I couldn't. However, I also don't want my own time wasted. Just appeals to me as it doesn't break ToS and my own time wasn't wasted.

People do that now in PF. But it amounts to "if we get a group where too many people aren't doing enough DPS, disband and hope next time those people get spread out amongst more groups that can carry them."

The lottery model of party creation isn't the most awesome thing I've ever heard of for high end content.

[JunseiKei]

People do that now in PF. But it amounts to "if we get a group where too many people aren't doing enough DPS, disband and hope next time those people get spread out amongst more groups that can carry them."

The lottery model of party creation isn't the most awesome thing I've ever heard of for high end content.

Every time you step into an instance with a stranger, you're already using a lottery model for the creation of the party.

[Tridus]

Every time you step into an instance with a stranger, you're already using a lottery model for the creation of the party.

Yes, but I'm not using the "if it fails, just assume other people were bad and hope it works out next time" plan. I can see pretty clearly what went wrong if I parse it, and if I'm part of the problem (which has been the case before), I know that and can try to do something about it.

Without any insight into why the group failed, all I can do is assume someone else was bad and try it with different people.

[MoroMurasaki]

One of the last interviews recently to ask Yoshida about parsers, to which a friend was one of the lucky few to be present, he said Yoshida's face went serious and said, in firm English, "No." That same friend wants in game parsers and he pretty much said, yeah, we're not going to get them just from how Yoshida answered, it's beating a dead horse.

Also, the in game culture stuff you quote is stuff not supported by SE. If it ever interfered with SE's business, they'd ban it. As it is with parsers; you get caught talking about it in game and get reported, you get suspended.

Right now, Yoshida's stance is very anti- parser.

Honestly, I'd sooner adopt the JP style of things: if you can't clear the content after so many tries, disband. It's not like I could help someone improve if they play a class I'm not good at, so even if I wanted to help them, I couldn't. However, I also don't want my own time wasted. Just appeals to me as it doesn't break ToS and my own time wasn't wasted.

You've hit the nail on the head. I guess being incredibly obtuse has it's advantages.

It's almost like you didn't read the whole post you're quoting - Yoshi wants money. It is his job. He does a damn good job of getting that money. Good for him.

The logical reason he would oppose parsing has nothing to do with this made up 'toxicity' and everything to do with how it can negatively impact their profitability as I said.

If people get told that they suck, even in a very polite way, they're going to become discouraged. A game that lets you think doing whatever the hell you want is not only acceptable play but good is a game that retains that expansive group of hypercasual players. A game that throws in your face all the time that you're doing 10% of the group's damage or, with more specificity, 50% of the damage put out by your healer (as a class designed to do damage) loses a lot of those subs.

Why do you think there are so many more dps than tanks and healers? Because as a dps it's rare in casual content to get called out on being bad. As a tank or healer your poor play is a lot more visible a lot earlier in the game.

Why is that? Because there are no indicators of poor play for a dps player right now. Parsers would be that indicator. Stop trying to romanticize Yoshi's stance on this into some sort of moral issue. From a business standpoint parser inclusion doesn't make sense and that is almost assuredly the roadblock here.

[Erik501]

Very funny.
A good player does not need a parser to show off how good they are, they just show their Savage gear and Ultimate title

Believe it or not, good players are the ones with decent attitude. Bad players are the ones playing victims to everything and attacking the good players.

Stop making 'harassment' an excuse.
People run into low-performance players EVERYDAY and say nothing to them because its just duty finder.

But people want to hold players responsible for their low-performance at high endgame content (Extream/Savage/Ultimate).
Is that considered harassment?
Do you prefer that we ignore the bad players and just keep wiping content until they get bored and leave?

Is wasting everyones else time considered OK? /think

Hello, this is a good example of what is called "out of context".

I know full well that the fragment you have quoted is just a gross over exaggeration based on a stupid cliché and, of course, out of context it only looks like a gross over exaggeration based on a stupid cliché.

However if you see it in its full context, that was a reply I made using the same style of someone who defended parsers through another gross over exaggeration based on another stupid cliché hoping that everybody would understand that the argument I was answering to was no more than a gross over exaggeration based on a stupid cliché. To be honest, it never crossed my mind that I would have to further explain it but... oh well, maybe it was not clear enough?

And about the parser thing, I think none of you have really stopped to think in how many ways it can backfire, and my guess is that many of you would never be able to understand to what point it could unless you had a time machine which you could use to witness in first person how it backfired in other games.

It is not only the community issues. Right now the rotation of most jobs, if not all of them, are player based. What I mean is that there are several things you have to consider: you have to manage and refresh dots, align your abilities with self buffs and party buffs that you need to apply and refresh properly and with the proper timing. One of the effects of these rotations is that they are very fun, at least for me, but another effect is that the gap between a player who can do it properly and the one who can't is huge, and that is fine in my book.

However a parser would make these differences obvious to everyone and this would lead to tensions among the playerbase. The problem is that the devs don't want tensions among the playerbase, so they would fix it. How? Easy: dumbing down the rotations. Dots? They get applied automagically when you get a crit. Self buffs? They become a passive trait, so nobody has to apply them and refresh them. The combo thing? Reduce it's potency and make it proc based, so in the end, all the player has to do is smash one or two buttons all day long and smash a third one when it is highlighted. Tank/dps stances? Remove them, tanks are always tanks. Enmity? Increase the tank multipliers for enmity generation to ridiculous numbers to the point that enmity is pretty much automatic. Now the rotation and gameplay is not a player based one, but a rng based one. Sure there will still be a little difference between those who can do it perfectly and those who can't, but it will be minimal, and so the damage output will mostly be based on the gear.

Problem solved? Oh, no, far than that. We have just opened another can of worms. Now everybody will be able to pull a decent DPS, so it is the time for the average wannabes to feel important. It happens everywhere, not only in games. You know them: the guy who calls himself an expert in computer science because he passed the exam of programming introduction, even if it was by the skin of a tooth. Yeah, here they are now doing more damage than that fresh lvl 70 guy who is starting to gear up. Do you think that the average wannabe will realize that the difference is only in the gear? Oh, no, of course not. The average wannabe will be absolutely sure that it is because he is an extremely good player and that fresh lvl 70 guy just sucks. And since the average wannabe has been waiting all of his life to be able to feel superior at something he will make sure that everybody knows that he is superior to that fresh lvl 70 guy who is starting to gear up, and now it is game on. The average Joe, like me for example, who only wants to have fun, will begin to drift away from the duty finder just to avoid the stupid drama generated by the average wannabes in there and, as time goes on, more and more average Joes like me will begin to leave the game because it is not fun anymore. That will increase the percentage of average wannabes to the point that you will most likely find at least one of them in every duty.

And since I guess nobody has a time machine yet, I can tell you that yes, it has happened before in other games. I don't see how it would be different in this one.

You want a parser only for savage and extreme content in premade parties and party finder? Well, since I don't do extreme nor savage, and I never use the party finder, I guess I don't care if they do that. But you see, I don't need a parser to know that I don't want to deal with all the drama around savage and extreme content and party finder already.

Does anybody want a parser for duty finder as well? Hell, no. The whole point of the duty finder is that veteran players carry new players through content which, if you ask me, is a brilliant idea. If you don't like to carry other players then don't use the duty finder. It really is that simple.

[akaneakki]

. The whole point of the duty finder is that veteran players carry new players through content which, if you ask me, is a brilliant idea. If you don't like to carry other players then don't use the duty finder. It really is that simple.

Not sure if you saw what I wrote here and in othet similar threads, do you have any proof that people being harrased most of the time? I'm waiting, just asking if you do is all . Since you claim in most post it happens often, I'm excited to see the proof with screenshots too.

[Erik501]

Not sure if you saw what I wrote here and in othet similar threads, do you have any proof that people being harrased most of the time? I'm waiting, just asking if you do is all . Since you claim in most post it happens often, I'm excited to see the proof with screenshots too.

And I don't know if you have read the post you have just quoted, because there I basically explain what has already happened in other games, not in this one. You can choose to believe me or not, that's your call, but I can't offer you proof since I don't have a time machine.

[akaneakki]

And I don't know if you have read the post you have just quoted, because there I basically explain what has already happened in other games, not in this one. You can choose to believe me or not, that's your call, but I can't offer you proof since I don't have a time machine.

I have played Blade and souls, gw2, world of warcraft. Those games are heavy on parser. If you run a content where damage is needed, you gotta be good not bad. It's that simple.If you do high end content in ff14 expect the same, don't join if you don't know how to play. If we talk dungeons etc, then that's a whole another thing, nobody gives a damn there, unless the dps is bad enough to be low as the healer or tank or at the same amount. Yes I did read your post but again it's just bunch of people like certain people on this forum (check the other threads) where they talked about being kicked from a party due to a parser, yet there was NO proof in chat. Then people find out the person spreading lies is actually not that good player either, in fact they way they play have no space in savage content. In blade and soul nobody, and I mean like nobody whos super bad will do raids there. In FF14 people go around think't is fine to be bad and do content. Hey just because you sub the game doesn't give you the right to access all content as everyone else? When you buy a game, you have to get to a certain check point etc, in a MMO teamplay is part of the checkpoint, you do the content together and work as a team. 1 guy doing as low as 30-40% than the rest isn't team effort, that's just a selfish player wanting everything without effort. while the rest works hard.

Also many players say it happens in FF14, so I did kinda asumed you talked about FF14 as well. You know when I played wow, I never ever got accused for anything, even when my damage was low, I was aware of it and everyone knew. I had to improve which i did, in FF14 people aren't aware of it and once we say a simple thing as; change rotation a bit it will help, I'm suddenly a toxic elitist brat as many call it.

Let me ask you this, you do savage? If not, why would it matter to you if parser happens or not? Second, if you do savage, you find out (lets say they did use a parser) and you are a DPS and doing as much as a tank, what would you think then? Is it acceptable doing lower than a tank or as much? or would you think you have to improve?

Another edit: Some people think when they get told that they need to improve is harrasment, because they can't do the content with the group, because they don't put enough effort, this happens often and you know what? Telling someone to improve isn't harrasment.