An Alternative? to parsers..

[SenorPatty]

Another grading system idea thread...

Patch 4.2 can't come soon enough.

[KeylanX]

Taking damage is never a great thing but it is the role of the tank do such so taking damage as a tank will have a reduced effect on the score listings comprared to healers and dps, encouraging people to use those cooldowns to boost that "score"

But my job as tank is to stay alive AND do as much dps as possible. So in dmg-stance i have to lower my "score" (get more dmg) to incrase my "score" (make more dmg)? And if dps doesnt matter in tanks "score" would it be the "right singnal" for new tanks to learn the job properly?

I understand the thing with using cooldowns, but we dont have just this "one job" while tanking.
At least the incrase of score through dps should weight more then through avoiding dmg.

I dont know man... sounds complicated, and you should never ask SE to do complicated things, they just cant (PS7 limitations)

Maybe its just my terrible english and i miss something important, but i guess a parser would just better fit.

[BluexBird]

I think what people still fail to realize is that if they are doing bad, like REALLY bad to the point other people are noticing, then it won't even take them that much effort to improve. They just need to be shown the way.

But in order for that to happen, they need to swallow their pride. And that's the thing that bugs me. People want to be able to sit in a fight doing less damage than the healers, and not get called out for it. Like no. Those are the people I was talking about. Those are the real "bad" players. And you guys want to defend players like that? lol

Either you don't do enough damage and you're willing to improve and accept/look for advice, or you don't do enough damage and get called out for it and kicked from the party. But I feel like at least with personal parsers and/or a grading system, we'd be able to stop the latter from happening.

You know what tho I don't even care, you only really need 3 DPS to do average in order to clear the fight lol as long as 3 know what they're doing, you can afford having some deadweight holding the party back. I've been in plenty of dungeons where I end up doing more damage than one of the DPS and it doesn't bother me cuz at the end of the day if they were doing well, we'd probably just clear 2-3 minutes faster so it's like.... whatever.

[akaneakki]

We all remember the last person that tried to claim this, and got called out on it for outright lying. Actually have not seen that person since being called out, surprisingly.

Ah yeah, I'm still waiting for proof, going to ask some people, because I'm honestly tired of those ''it happens all the damn time'', yet to see anything.

[KaivaC]

Ah yeah, I'm still waiting for proof, going to ask some people, because I'm honestly tired of those ''it happens all the damn time'', yet to see anything.

Maybe I'll do a little social experiment...I'll just go 50% on something easy, like O2S, and see what is said. I honestly want to see these supposed claims of harassment.

[BluexBird]

Maybe I'll do a little social experiment...I'll just go 50% on something easy, like O2S, and see what is said. I honestly want to see these supposed claims of harassment.

Oh, it happens. I see it from time to time. The only time it bothers me is when they expect high levels of play. Like... 3000-3500 DPS doesn't bother me, but you will sometimes get people complaining that they aren't doing over 4000. Like dude... chill please or go make a speedrun party. lol

Now often during farm parties, I'm used to seeing DPS drop below 3000 and that's often fine most of the time. Unless I notice we aren't gonna beat enrage, I don't say anything. And I think that's how it should be.

[SenorPatty]

Maybe I'll do a little social experiment...I'll just go 50% on something easy, like O2S, and see what is said. I honestly want to see these supposed claims of harassment.

You're not gonna find any. Anyone who uses a parser is aware of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy so no one's going to hang themselves out to dry by announcing it in a pug setting. By that same turn, that's also why someone gets silently kicked or the party disbands and the bad player can't return to the party via blacklist. That's where the claims come from. They can't prove with hard evidence that they got kicked because of bad parse. They can only strongly guess that's the reason but this begs the question: if you got kicked without any jeer whatsoever, why call it harassment?

[Gelesto]

But my job as tank is to stay alive AND do as much dps as possible. So in dmg-stance i have to lower my "score" (get more dmg) to incrase my "score" (make more dmg)? And if dps doesnt matter in tanks "score" would it be the "right singnal" for new tanks to learn the job properly?

I understand the thing with using cooldowns, but we dont have just this "one job" while tanking.
At least the incrase of score through dps should weight more then through avoiding dmg.

Tanks and Healers would still earn points through damage, just see taking damage as a negative to score if you take avoidable damage or not using your cooldowns.

But yeah seeing as SE's stance on having in game parsers is as it is I just thought a "friendly" alternative could please some people and Playstation players who dont have access to such things.

[Sebazy]

For healing as stated above effecdtive healing (damage absorbed by shields also would count towards this) meaning no overheals would increase your "score"

Grading a healer on their actual healing throughput is actually quite tricky because in essence, your healing throughput is as dependent on the rest of the group as it is the healer in question. Frankly, I think it's better to simply grade everyone with a 'damage' rank and leave it at that (Aka what they did for SSS).

At one extreme, I might get a group with 2 excellent DPS and a new tank that whilst competent, may not have the confidence for large pulls, in a run like this I'd be free to push as hard on the DPS as my MP allows, the incoming damage would be minimal and could likely be healed efficiently primarily with Regens and oGCDs.

At the other extreme, you'd have a group with 2 sub par DPS, a tank that pulls big but otherwise isn't great and a healer that precasts medica II. Even once you discard the overhealing, that WHM will inevitably smash my HPS by a huge margin through the sheer amount of extra damage taken.

By providing a grade on effective healing done, this system is proclaiming that the second example played better than the first. That's really not a good stance to take IMHO.

An alternative approach might be provide a Healing Efficiency score. Take the overall effective healing done and rank it vs the MP used to achieve this healing to. That would reward better cooldown and oGCD usage as well. Of course, it'll still be swayed by the comparative skill of the rest of the group, but perhaps less so. It's not perfect (few would sing the praises of consistently using Cure over Cure II at 70 now), but as someone who played the logs healing rankings game pretty hard during HW, it's about the best healing centric metric I can think of.

[KaivaC]

snip

How does overhealing work exactly? I mean, i get that it basically means how much extra healing a player does than 'necessary', but how does that have an impact on, say FFLOGs, aside from the obvious DPS?