An Alternative? to parsers..

[akaneakki]

No, because raiders wanted to single heal zurvan to farm him, and you needed to skip soar to have the DPS to be able to do fast farm runs and be able to do so. Y

I've seen ONLY 1 or 2 solo heal farm groups and some couldn't even skip zurvan, did those 1 solo healer zurvan groups exist alot of? Nope, I was playing very very actively around that time too. Ofc if you farm a fight you should be avaible to be confident enough to do it faster and more effective, pushing your damage etc, that's why it's called farm. Some people who wanted to farm couldn't do the mecahnics and that's why many expected it to be skipped. I can legit say back then 3 out of 8 players in most groups couldn't do it right and we wiped. But JP players actually RESPECT their fellow members. They use most of the time PF to practice and DF to kill or was it the opposite? I forgot. Anyways, they are more respectful towards others, while on this side of the world we have too many players who don't give a damn. You see it still today, people say farm and barely know how to perform the fight. They expect too much of others but we can't do the same.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, because raiders wanted to single heal zurvan to farm him, and you needed to skip soar to have the DPS to be able to do fast farm runs and be able to do so. You can do the mechanic if you practice it enough; but once people cleared they didn't want to practice it or do it the slow way; they wanted high dps and soar was an easy sign of it. It became a meme because of that; the JP actually didn't skip soar as their base strat and beat him fine.

Unlike some people, I actually participate in this content. The sheer amount of people who couldn't do Soar, let alone had the DPS to skip it, was staggering. Plenty of groups with five and even six DPS still couldn't skip. Zurvan demonstrated just how many people cannot perform a basic rotation. He literally did next to nothing prior to Soar. Negligible auto-attacks and telegraphed aoes. Anyone with knowledge of the fight and their job should have skipped Soar. The check to do so was incredibly lenient. Regardless, if people advertised a "Skip Soar" farm party and you join yet have nowhere near the DPS to adequately skip. Why are you there in the first place? You aren't entitled to farming birds because you want one. The group clearly labeled their expectations and you didn't meet them.

I'll acknowledge doing the actual mechanic wasn't a big deal, but the meme originated due to how easy skipping Soar was with decent players. Not orange, top tier raiders. Just players who could perform a proper opener, healers that actually turned on Cleric Stance and tanks that didn't hug their tank stance.

[Odstarva]

How can people defend not-playing as any sort of defense.

You can be bad at the game, it's okay. People that would be dicks are still going to be dicks, it doesn't matter whether there's a parser there or not.
Jeez.

[Selova]

snip.

Yeah, I'm not slogging through that entire novel you just wrote, the enter key is your friend.


You seem to like putting words into people's mouths, I've never said, not once that the game needs a parser to be successful, it should be obvious FFXIVs success has nothing to do with parsers.


The only thing I've ever said is that people need to dial back a bit on using over exaggerated anecdotes as facts when it comes to a official parser and it how it spells doom for the game as a whole.


I highly recommend you at least read posts you respond to in the future, thanks.

[Selova]

snip

^Not all hero's wear capes. Nailed it right on the head. Thanks for saying what I was feeling Tridus.

[PondHollow]

For healing as stated above effecdtive healing (damage absorbed by shields also would count towards this) meaning no overheals would increase your "score"

Taking damage is never a great thing but it is the role of the tank do such so taking damage as a tank will have a reduced effect on the negative score listings comprared to healers and dps (avoid the orange muck), encouraging people to use those cooldowns to boost that "score"

Appropriate healer actions are extremely varied depending on the skill of the group. Mass and constant overhealing can be very reasonable if at any given moment there's a high likeliness some random party member is going to get themselves killed (and something like Diabolos or Hashmal would involve a lot of confusion if most people don't or can't perform well) and a grading system should not disincentivize people from playing with worse players so as to retain their own grading, so your grade should probably be affected less if the grade of your partymembers is lower.



The bonus you suggested for swift completion is an especially bad idea in this light.

[Melichoir]

Rankings is a soft version of parsing, which isnt to bad an idea. But the problem will ultimately be the same: At some point itll be a tool to bludgeon others with.

"Oh, you dindt get S rating on 'x','y', and 'z'? Youre trash!" /votekick.

While I dont think that that will happen a lot, you can expect it to happen enough to be noticed. There was an argument someone put forward stating "Only a microscopic handful of people with parsers talk trash. Most people want to be nice!" And I agree with that. But what they failed to acknowledge was that adding parsers to teh WIDER majority is going to substantially increase the rate of abuse proportional to the population. So if 500 people had parsers, and only 50 of them talked trash, thats one thing. When it goes live, if proportions hold up (which they will likely do), that number goes from 50, to 500 if the player base is 5000. Thts a lot of people.

[Melichoir]

So long as you can measure other players, you will get a hierarchy. And in hierarchies, there will be those who dump all over people below them.

If you add an in game parser, you will get people who will measure the worth of other players by DPS, or HPS. And they will dump all over other players. See the argument I dont get most for adding an in game parser is itll help people who want to improve. The thing is people who want to improve read teh guides and go get the parsers. People who do not care and just want to experience the game, theyre not going out to get parsers. But if you give them one, dont expect them to change their mindset and want to get better all of a sudden. Expect them to use it as a means of measuring other people by the standards the top tier players use. The only difference is Top tier players understand the standard and tend not to berate people over it. The casual base wont understand that.

[cheolsu]

i suggest Marjorie Parser. in the monk ex dungeon, marjorie says arbuda is used as a speed test for monks. she will actually tell you how fast you were after the fight. i suggest marjorie be an option for any instances, and she can give advice after a wipe, like, "that tank needs to use cooldowns," or, "your healer isn't dps'ing", or "that monk needs to forget about his positionals and do the damned mechanics". and it won't be harassment, because npc

[Tridus]

i suggest Marjorie Parser. in the monk ex dungeon, marjorie says arbuda is used as a speed test for monks. she will actually tell you how fast you were after the fight. i suggest marjorie be an option for any instances, and she can give advice after a wipe, like, "that tank needs to use cooldowns," or, "your healer isn't dps'ing", or "that monk needs to forget about his positionals and do the damned mechanics". and it won't be harassment, because npc

Yeah that was a pretty clever way to tell people how well they were doing the mechanics.

But would you be happy to wait additional 10 minutes in the queue, due to the low playerbase issues and less people playing a tank or a healer?

I am a healer. My best geared non-healer job is Paladin. So no, this doesn't concern me.

Seriously though, less people are already playing tanks and healers because those roles are much more public in their mistakes. It's obvious when they're doing something wrong. It's much less obvious when a DPS player is doing something wrong. That's why people consider it the low pressure, low skill role, even though that's not especially true when you're playing at a high level. It's much easier to play it at a low level and still have a successful group.

With parser available for everyone, those 2 roles will get increased attention and pressure as well as dps role, because why they shouldnt?

They already do. A tank or healer not doing their basic role requirement effectively stands out like a sore thumb: they cause people to die. A DPS doing that can easily blend in with other people doing it and be carried. All parsers do is make them stick out as well.

Oh you are a paladin and does 5% of the entire team dps, because you are pulling large amount of mobs and your aoe is non existent or your team is overpowering your enimity and need to spam flash? Get called.
Your tank is a soft noodle and you dont have MP to waste it for dps? You will get called.

Does this ever actually happen? If you're active and doing your job, that's all most people expect in roulettes. Parsers show if you're active or not, so I don't see the problem.

With parser so easy to use and supported by SE, there will be people who will use it just to harass mindlessly others because of their dps.
You guys are so worried about the others who afk or spam one button, but forget about those who just cant do that well for various reasons, and they will get harassed more often than those who doesnt care.
You will create a solid ground with in game parser for those seeking excuses, the biggest toxicity victims will be those who doesnt play well or are new to the game or class.

And how does someone who doesn't play well play better if the game doesn't even tell them that they're not playing well? Feedback for DPS players is crummy in that department because for so long it doesn't matter how well you're playing. When it suddenly does and the boss enrages, the game doesn't tell you which players aren't doing enough DPS, so groups devolve into wild finger pointing because they don't have the data to correct the problem.

How is that better?